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#42
03-22-2007, 01:22 AM
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Re: Spew or Sexy: You decide!
James -
I totally agree with you range for the Villain. So Villain most likely has the following hands A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (where X is smaller than a Q). 55-JJ. Suited diamonds. You should throw in the occasional AQ or AK since you were UTG, but whatever. So the Villain should probably throw away alot of his middle pairs and when he calls with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and suited diamonds, it'll be close to 50-50. There are times when you'll be crused but I think that is off set by the times he throws away middle pairs. However, the play would be MUCH MUCH more sexy if the villain wasn't getting the proper odds to draw to ANY flush. VERDICT: Sexy! 
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#44
03-22-2007, 01:23 AM
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Re: Spew or Sexy: You decide!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you have AK here, it's slightly better since you have some real equity against opponent's range. [/ QUOTE ] ??? [/ QUOTE ] b/c you'd have two overs against QQ, etc etc [/ QUOTE ] is 2p2er just calling here with QQ preflop? i suppose sometimes, but like less than 5%....right? AJ and AK should be the same here. i also dont see how this isnt viewed as an ok play at least some of the time....are most 2p2ers calling off their stack here with mid PP's? if not, then they need to fold...plus it helps OP get looked up when he does with again and again but has JJ+ those times.
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#45
03-22-2007, 01:27 AM
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Re: Spew or Sexy: You decide!
[ QUOTE ]
James I'm curious. Do you ever 3bet anything here other than a bluff? [/ QUOTE ] JJ-AA is standard. You don't want a scare card to come. I think the real question is what kind of hands does the Villain usually raise with here?
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#46
03-22-2007, 01:28 AM
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Re: Spew or Sexy: You decide!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you have AK here, it's slightly better since you have some real equity against opponent's range. [/ QUOTE ] ??? [/ QUOTE ] b/c you'd have two overs against QQ, etc etc [/ QUOTE ] is 2p2er just calling here with QQ preflop? i suppose sometimes, but like less than 5%....right? AJ and AK should be the same here. i also dont see how this isnt viewed as an ok play at least some of the time....are kost 2p2ers calling off thier stack here with mid PP's? if not, then they need to fold...plus it helps OP get looked up when he does with again and again but has JJ+ those times. [/ QUOTE ] QQ almost never. JJ I think it's aobut 50/50 raise vs call.
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#47
03-22-2007, 01:34 AM
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Re: Spew or Sexy: You decide!
[ QUOTE ]
Keyser and all other in "spew" camp: Heres my logic... [ QUOTE ] This bet tells me he usually has one of three things: 1. the goods (pay me!), 2. a flush draw(slow down!) 3.a mid pair(do you have AA?, i'll go away). [/ QUOTE ] Also this play will get people to pay me off lighter if it does not work out. Its obviously not a standard line, and thats why most of you just deem it as spew. Honestly if I posted this in msnl most would say its- occasionally fine. I understand ssnl is different but given conditions this is not "complete spew". Just trying to encourage ssnl to think beyond the power of your own hand. I have played much higher which isnt a brag but just trying to show you a nonstandard line that is much more common at higher stakes but can still occasionally work in ssnl under right conditions. Food for thought. Flame away. [/ QUOTE ] sir, i ought to sue you for plagiarism. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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#48
03-22-2007, 01:37 AM
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Re: Spew or Sexy: You decide!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] James I'm curious. Do you ever 3bet anything here other than a bluff? [/ QUOTE ] JJ-AA is standard. You don't want a scare card to come. I think the real question is what kind of hands does the Villain usually raise with here? [/ QUOTE ] Cool, I thought so. If I can extend my thinking, this line would be way worse on a 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flop?
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#50
03-22-2007, 01:40 AM
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Re: Spew or Sexy: You decide!
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I'll say it again. This is a play that is good sometimes, and only against palyers who will fold 88-TT kind of hands... If he wont fold these, don't do it. If he will fold these, do it once in a while. Anyone who says it is complete spew and always spew is dead wrong... EDIT: FWIW, AJ isn't really much better than A2 assuming we make the move, because have established that if we make the move, we think he is capable of folding at least 88-TT. We don't think he will fold JJ+ here, so A2 fairs basically the same against his calling range. Make this play with any ace against the right players with the right frequency and it IS +EV. [/ QUOTE ] This pretty much echoes my sentiment here. This play has some nice metagame value, but if he's going to look you up with mid pairs almost every time; I really don't think it's worth it. Agreed with the ALWAYS/NEVER truisms as well. The trouble I'm having is assigning hand ranges for villain. He's reraising an UTG raiser with a player to act behind in position the entire hand. Set/trips 20%, mid pair 40%, flush draw/random hands 40%? Seem somewhat close? I'm inclined to think a midpair would smoothcall here unless he's defining his hand to fold to a push. The more I think about this hand, the more I like it.
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