Coaching WARNING

[FishSticks]

Freelancer - why don't you buy the 3 remaining lesson hours off PSJ for 50% off? You like snowbank and his coaching, and you can get 3 quality hours for a dirt cheap price.

[thac]

I wanna ask again since it got avoided - how much work did you put into searching a coach? Did you just say yes to snowbank because he's a respected poster? I really doubt that you looked into his game, how he coached, or asked for any reviews from his past students.

Your analogy of the construction worker: Would you hire some random guy to build your pool? Hell no you wouldn't, look into what you buy before you put so much of a percentage of your bankroll on a service that you know nothing of.

[pokersanjuan]

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You can't blame snowbank for YOU losing your roll.

Your results in poker are all entirely your own fault. Passing the buck here won't wash.

When you agree to pay someone money for a product or service you form a legally binding contract. This contract was upheld by both parties - you don't have a leg to stand on.

Buyer beware. When you negotiate a deal you must always always always make dam sure you have read the fine print and understand exactly what you are getting yourself into if x happens or if y happens - that way this kind of situation never happens.



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I am NOT implying my losses are HIS fault. I think I should recieve a refund for unused coaching hours. The first I ever heard of no refund was THIS CONVERSATION.

I simply told him I am not playing poker anymore and will not be using his services. Not that they were that great to begin with.

He was never available, and except for our first 30 min together the sessions constituted NOTHING.

Also there are implied warranaties in services as well as products. Buyer beware is more along the lines of pawn shops.

[Keyser.]

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He was never available, and except for our first 30 min together the sessions constituted NOTHING.

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you keep saying this, but it would help you tremendously if you explained/proved it.

[Piece of Cake]

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Freelancer - why don't you buy the 3 remaining lesson hours off PSJ for 50% off? You like snowbank and his coaching, and you can get 3 quality hours for a dirt cheap price.

[/ QUOTE ]

I posted this in the locked thread but:

IMO - There's a reason why these coaches require you purchase 5 sessions at a time. There's significant investment and opportunity cost for taking on a student. I imagine the price of one session would be at a higher per session cost than buying 5 for instance.

So the cost to snowbank to give 3 lessions to someone else takes more work than 3 lessons to someone whom he has already given 2. There is a reason some coaches sell lessons in groups. It's for their insurance not simply to in inconvenience the student or scam them. There are coaches out there who will sell one a per session basis - if you're unsure whether you'll use all 5 you should take this approach - or ask ahead of time about rebates if you don't want to use them.

[Keyser.]

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[00:38] p: what is your cost missing???...we did 2 sessions in 3 weeks??? how much could you have POSSIBLY lost in other studentsp

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this seems somewhat important

[Grunch]

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Buyer beware is more along the lines of pawn shops.

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Well, this is just wrong, but irrelevant also. If on a scale of 1 to 10 a construction constract is a 9 and the pawn shop is a 2, poker coaching over the internet has to be close to a 1. Not even in the same universe as a 10.

The idea of implied warranties is something that the lawyers figured out. Good luck getting a court to recognize that you have any rights whatsoever.

[matrix]

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When you agree to pay someone money for a product or service you form a legally binding contract.

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You're really shooting from the hip with little knowledge of the law.

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no I'm not as it happens - please don't make assumptions about me.

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Any "contract" they had was informal, probably verbal but otherwise on an unverifiable medium like email - and definitely a far cry from a signed hard copy.

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a contract whether verbal or written is a contract and is legally binding. (AFAIK it's the same law in the US as in the UK) The only reason (from what info is posted) that snowbank hasn't provided the remainder of the service that he was paid for is because the OP doesn't want them.

Whether or not the service was up to standard is debateable and VERY hard to prove wither way. If a builder builds you a square pool and not a round one thats easy to see - if a coach teaches you something and then you don't apply it correctly - or just get plain unlucky while you try stuff out - thats an awkward can of worms.

FWIW I think OP is an idiot - perhaps now he will make dam sure what he is getting himself into before he hands money over to people in the future for any kind of product or service - and this is a good thing.

FWIW #2 I also think Snowbank is an idiot. It's very very bad business sense imho for him not to refund OP his money however much money this whole thing has actually cost him.

dammit - thats another long boring post people will just have to skim over if they don't want to read it. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] sorry.

[Freelancer]

OP send me a PM asking if I would buy the remaining sessions of him;
I forgot to save the PM but here is the general gist of my responce;
I would have to talk to snowbank about this, however we completed our coaching lessons pretty much so there isn't much point for me personally to get them.

[Slap My Jack]

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For the folks that are flatly saying "you paid X for Y so you are entitled to nothing" -

1) Well what should he do at this point? You think he's actually going to get quality coaching for the 3 hours he has left after all this? He's got $450 dangling in the wind and no viable recourse.



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Whose fault is that? His line is completely confrontational and has become even more absurd by blaming snowbank for his going busto. It seems like this person probably was not that coachable if he still needed to learn to move the [censored] down when no longer rolled for a particular limit.



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2) Do you realize in the busines world that if you are offering a prepaid service and intend on not refunding any unused services, you need to be extremely specific in regard to that in your contracts - and even then it's *very* difficult to uphold if it comes to litigation?

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If it goes to litigation, which it is not usually going to be the case. When you make an agreement, you are still usually expected to uphold it.

What is likely the case:

OP expected too much from coaching.

Snowbank shared his own winrate, but I doubt he promised OP a matching 10pt/bb winrate. OP thought through some coaching he would immediately become ship it holla balla. You actually need to take what you learned in a session and then put it into practice, and there -will- be variance whenever applying something new to your game.

I think Snowbank would be doing a good thing by refunding some part of it, but he isn't obligated to do that.