Phil Ivey Gossip

[ICallHimGamblor]

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Clearly a switch-a-roo





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No matter how bad my day is going, that mspaint of ivey always makes me fall over laughing. Thanks.

[betafemale]

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I didn't change the quote. I know how to spell you [censored] [censored] nit.

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You wanna spell heads up for any amount? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

LOOOOOOOOOOL, you need to calm down.

[cobrakai111]

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I didn't change the quote. I know how to spell you [censored] [censored] nit.

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You wanna spell heads up for any amount? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

LOOOOOOOOOOL, you need to calm down.

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10k spelling bee?

[La Brujita]

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Lying about your handicap in golf is cheating not hussling

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completely agree. you don't have to pay if someone lies about handicap. that is crystal clear imo.

[knifeandfork]

pavin ivey bet ever happen im guessing no but that was a fun thread to read

[Devil Duq]

OK, I understand that I'm a solid favorite to get flamed for making such a lengthy post, so if you're allergic to "words", please move on.

I believe that those who are getting caught up in the "Is Phil Ivey really a scumbag?" vibe of this thread are missing the point. What I love about this tidbit is that it illustrates the similarities between competitive gambling in both golf and poker, my two favorite games. In each, it's all about maximizing your statistical edge, and often about how overreliance on a perceived advantage can cost you dearly.

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Marc Goodwin, a very self-regarding semi-successful tournament player...has been very boastful of his friendship with Ivey and how he has made lumps of money playing golf with him.

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Here we have a situation where a person with an (as stated) over-inflated view of himself prizes a friendship with a person he clearly views as a cash cow/sucker. Indeed, he probably secretly regarded himself as hustling Phil on the golf course; as long as that remained the status quo, there didn't seem to be a problem.

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After 7 holes Goodwin was down $450,000 and suddenly erupted in fury at Ivey, claiming he had cheated them and stormed off the course.

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Funny how, when the hustler gets hustled, he reveals himself for what he truly is.

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Ivey was asked how much he had been playing in the few months since they had last been able to play together. He claimed he hadn't been able to play much at all due to all the poker he was playing and was accordingly given a generous advantage.

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Dissolve to the Bellagio poker room. You are playing heads-up NLHE against Phil Ivey with $450K in front of you. After the river card falls, you've made the second-nut flush. Ivey, first to act, pushes his entire stack into the pot; he's got you covered. You look at Phil and ask, "You don't have the nut flush, do you?" He smiles at you and says, "Nope." You decide to call. Ivey tables the nut flush.

Gasp! Phil Ivey's blatant lie just cost you $450K!

Why is making the most of an edge and using psychology to get your opponent(s) to make bad decisions acceptable at the poker table but not on the golf course? So sorry, I call BS on that notion. The terms of the golf wager were agreed to by all parties, based largely upon Ivey's opponents' "read" on whether or not Phil was being truthful about his HCP or recent amount of play/practice. Ivey took advantage of his edge and his opponent's "generosity", and in the process took a guy who had previously beaten him out of "lumps of money" to the cleaners. Sorry about that, Mr. Goodwin. Better luck next time.

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Vaswani(one of the more fearless gamblers in the world and an honourable chap) finished off the 18 holes and ended up owing $900,000. Apparently he hasn't got that kind of money and so negotiated some sort of settlement with Ivey with the intention of paying.

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This further solidifies my point. Vaswani fully comprehends the comparison I've drawn here and, as a true gambler (not a hustler), he saw the wager through to the end. Ram is really the only guy who comes out looking completely clean in this whole story, although the price of his honorability is apparenly $900K.

IMHO, a far worse sin than "sandbagging" (ie hustling or "cheating" as its been called) is welching on a bet when you yourself established and agreed to the terms of the wager. That the terms were established based on bad information is immaterial.

Suppose, for instance, that despite his 3 months of coaching and surreptitious practice, Ivey had still posted a bad round? Would he have said, "Sorry, guys, I tried to sandbag here but it didn't work out. I should have won but didn't, so I'm not paying off the bet." I don't think so; he would have swallowed the truth about his hustle gone wrong and forked over the cash.

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The other two have no intention of paying and there is now bad blood between them. Should they pay up?

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The truth is that Goodwin and "eric123" were probably playing for stakes way out of their comfort zone and/or ability to pay, precisely because they viewed Phil Ivey as an easy mark. After losing, they angrily seized upon an accusation of cheating in order to excuse welching on their bets. Truly, who are the real scumbags in this whole affair?

Let me conclude by recalling Lee Trevino's quote about the definition of true pressure in golf, which he characterized as "playing a $50 nassau with $5 in your pocket". You made a bet and lost, gentlemen. If you could not pay, you should not have played. Pick your suckers more carefully next time, and have a nice day.

(For a great, laugh-out-loud novel about golf gambles gone wrong, I recommend Rick Reilly's "Shanks For Nothing")

[shaniac]

The original post sounds like a mixture of two different Ivey-golf-hustling-related stories I had heard recently. I'm not sure what happened where, but I believe the general theme of this gossip is mostly accurate.

[shaniac]

Devil Duq,

I don't think your version is correct--the suggestion is that Ivey blatantly and specifically misrepresents his skill level in order to get a spot that would leave his opponents drawing dead.

[HOWMANY]

So basically what happened here was that the hustlers got hustled and then cried about it like babies?

[The Camel]

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So basically what happened here was that the hustlers got hustled and then cried about it like babies?

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I know Marc pretty well and in no way can he be described as a golf hustler.

If anything, I would guess he overexaggerates his ability at golf.