Finance Job questions

[viciouspenguin]

hi rock,

how much mathematical experience is typically necessary?

thanks for taking the time to answer these questions btw

[highhustla]

rock,

I am 24, graduated 4 months ago w/ EE undergrad, and got a job working at a software company after graduation. I'd like to do something else (why I'm here, ha). Trading sounds awesome.

You think the Wall St firms would still have any interest in me? Have I already missed the boat?

[chisness]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinv...LSTREET-PAY.XML

[rock1]

i think it will be difficult for you at this point...but aim for smaller firms and you never know...also, go back to bschool in a few years if you cant find your way in...

[rock1]

not much necessary for less quant areas...typically the quant desks above like to have reasonable math experience...

[rock1]

john,
this is what i will say...i have found all of my jobs to be incredibly interesting...much "tougher" game overall than poker...so your points "of getting filthy rich" are true for some...but many people actually really enjoy the work...(investment banking a different story)...

dont worry about social norms/money/what people think...do somehting you find interesting and life is good...

as for your chance to break in, you never know...but i would guess its unlikely from the limited data points i have...but there are many people that become successful trading on their own..best of luck

[rock1]

keep in mind that this is all one guy's opinion...

[rsliu]

Hey rock,

I'm currently going through recruiting right now. Suppose I get my top 2 choices (sales and trading Morgan Stanley, Acct Mngmt Bridgewater Associates), which do I take and why? I'm not super interested in straight up ibanking but I like what the hedge funds, pe shops, and vc firms are doing.

[xPeru]

Fascinating thread, Strassa's too. Some general points:

1. Traders earn from not very much to a lot. One friend earns less than $50k working for Macquarie, another was the second highest paid trader in the world and has just set up a hedge fund with $6bn of investment (Jon Wood UBS).

2. There are many ways to get into the business, you don't have to go through the big bank graduate programmes eg my wife got a job at KBC Financial Products as a 30 year old history graduate. The Head of Risk there is a close friend of mine and he thought that she had achieved some pretty amazing things because she was brought up in a small town in Peru and had made it to work for an Internet start up in London after winning several open competitions for overseas scholarships.

3. Last year I worked for Morgan Stanley because I took a business proposal to them seeking $20m of investment; they hated the business, didn't invest, but hired me at the age of 42 ($500k pa).

4. Traders need maths, poker players need maths. The difference is that poker players are amateurs and traders professional, poker maths is a good start point for them, what we should be doing is learning from financial maths how to play better poker eg which of us actually calculates VAR or RAROC? How many of us use portfolio theory to decide whether to play a cash game, STT or MTT next?

5. People who hire traders love poker players and chess and bridge players, absolutely put it on your CV. I know, I set up a company with the ex-head of recruitment from Goldman to recruit traders and salesmen for investment banks. We took advantage of the fact that the banks wanted to hire non-standard people ie not Ivy League etc, they want diversity in their workforces. Exampl hire was an ex-engineering officer from nuclear submarines.

6. Typically the Head of a Trading Desk will have a running P&L figure on his computer that he looks at every 5 seconds. Totally stupid, but indicative of the stress levels which are high, however, every day is a new day, you get to start fresh, it's not like slaving away for 3 months on a project that then goes horribly wrong and you have to fix it. When the market closes you can switch off (not true if you trade lots of markets, but true for a junior trader).

[xPeru]

Sorry posted without finishing. Strassa take the Goldman job if it's offered - they will interview you many, many times before you get an offer. The people are very smart, the support you get for your own development is amazing, and ex-Goldman traders get their pickof next jobs if and when you choose to move. This truly is a golden ticket.

rsliu, Morgan is a great company too, and becuse more people want to work for GS, they pay more than GS .... The real money and sound future are definitely in Sales and Trading there, not acct mgt at Bridegewater.

Gl