France's social market vs. the U.S.'s libertarian/less social market

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
That is fortune from the perspective of the child; of course. Unless he choose his own parents pre-conception.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is fortune from the perspective of an individual child. In the social context it is not fortune, it is the fostering of that social good to minimize the effect of individual fortunes, which not only will never be totally eliminated, but the attempt to do so would cause irreperable harm.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
"In such a community the idea of profit is barred; higgling and haggling is decried; giving freely is acclaimed as a virtue; the supposed propensity to barter, truck, and exchange does not appear. The economic system is, in effect, a mere function of social organization." IBID, pg. 52.

He goes on to talk about forms of trade in societies in which "no goods are hoarded or even possesed permanently" at all. IBID.


[/ QUOTE ]

You need to put this in the context of the communities/societies that exhibit these behaviors for any reasonable response.

BTW re the need to understand psychology to understand economics...I dont agree. A study of historical economies already encompasses the human underpinnings of those societies.

Newton recognized gravity and developed perfectly acceptable theories without knowing whether the underpinnings of gravity is a warping of spacetime, gravitons, or an invisible bird dragging a less massive object toward a more massive one (or vice versa).

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Ironic. The libertarian market is defended because it supposedly 'gives people what they want'. But they don't want that market itself. Hence, if our goal is to give people what they want, we shouldn't impose libertarianism on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a bit of a hijack:

New Hampshire and the Free State Project

Before everyone and their brother decides to chime in about how this will never work and how a state requires federal consent to secede from the union, would you object to a libertarian secession, if that is what the majority of the people in the region wanted?

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ironic. The libertarian market is defended because it supposedly 'gives people what they want'. But they don't want that market itself. Hence, if our goal is to give people what they want, we shouldn't impose libertarianism on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a bit of a hijack:

New Hampshire and the Free State Project

Before everyone and their brother decides to chime in about how this will never work and how a state requires federal consent to secede from the union, would you object to a libertarian secession, if that is what the majority of the people in the region wanted?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont find anything about secession in your link.

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]

Ironic. The libertarian market is defended because it supposedly 'gives people what they want'. But they don't want that market itself. Hence, if our goal is to give people what they want, we shouldn't impose libertarianism on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how I missed this. This is NOT what a libertarian goal is. If I want to rape your wife every night, a libertarian society would NOT be ok with this. Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about when trying to express an opposing view.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ironic. The libertarian market is defended because it supposedly 'gives people what they want'. But they don't want that market itself. Hence, if our goal is to give people what they want, we shouldn't impose libertarianism on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how I missed this. This is NOT what a libertarian goal is. If I want to rape your wife every night, a libertarian society would NOT be ok with this. Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about when trying to express an opposing view.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it really not knowing, or intentional twisting in order to make a point that would be inane without that twisting?

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont find anything about secession in your link.

[/ QUOTE ]

c'mon, read between the lines [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont find anything about secession in your link.

[/ QUOTE ]

c'mon, read between the lines [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I did read between the lines. To link to a group that has the money to spend on a well developed website but is unwilling to state their ultimate goals is a waste of everyones time.

If you want to talk about a "libertarian secession" than outline the parameters of it, instead of that nonsense.

[Propertarian]

I know I know I know. You can't violate 'property rights' in a liberatarian society. Many people make the claim I was talking about before as a reason to support libertarian goals. But not all people defend it in the exact same way just like not all people defend egalitarianism in the same way.

[Propertarian]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to put this in the context of the communities/societies that exhibit these behaviors for any reasonable response.

[/ QUOTE ] No, I don't. One reason I do not is that the purpose of that post was to prove that what he claims is a universal human trait is not in fact a universal human trait, which is important in this debate.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW re the need to understand psychology to understand economics...I dont agree. A study of historical economies already encompasses the human underpinnings of those societies.

[/ QUOTE ] I would distinguish between 'economic sociology/history/anthropolgy' and 'economics'. The former has quite a bit of value, no doubt. But it doesn't have the potential of the later in my view; and it does not have the micro foundations, and generally does not have the methodological individualism, that are desirable in the social sciences.