how israel reacts to attacks

[Ray Zee]

always they return with many times the force that was put upon them.
look at it this way. if someone cuts off your finger and you do the same to him. then a toe and you do the same. soon both of you are lying there with no movement left. so israel cuts off three fingers first. then a hand and foot. then blows off the head.
since anyone attacking them knows that they return aggression like this, the attacker must accept the outcome, or dont attack in the first place.
so basically the groups that attack israel are mearly pawns for larger ggroups like syria and iran which benefit from the violence so they wont have to do it themselves.
to survive in that region israel must make it clear to all countries that if they mess with them it will be full scale distruction until the attacker stops and surrenders.
if the countries around israel want its demise then they have to wait until they are stronger and can win.
i think both sides are clearly wrong on how they treat each other. and unfortunately it looks like the confrontation is coming to a head with the stronger going to displace the weaker.

[Yuv]

Ray, the major issue regarding this attack is a vast sense in Israel that we have lost some of that deterence factor you are talking about.

I am not sure if we succeed in returning that (i.e., don't attack us or suffer the extreme consequences), but that is def. one of the goals, even if not spoken upon officialy.

[helloboy]

firstly, please stop relegatin all members of both sides to eithe one pole. Stop seeing all Israelis as the supporters of the attacks and all palestines as terrorist supporters. This is not true.

Next, both Israel and Palestine have become a farce. What used to be centers of greatness now lands of nonsense.


With all this nonsense oing on I am astounbded by still how many people there are that take ffaith in the common "Abrahamic God."

Next, that land belonged to dinosaurs and atheistic civilizations before any of the folks fighting for it today even started claiming it.

Honestly, do you think that God exists???//?

[morphball]

The real pawns of Syria and Iran are the ordinary and law abiding citizens of both Lebanon and Palestine...

[kickabuck]

[ QUOTE ]
The real pawns of Syria and Iran are the ordinary and law abiding citizens of both Lebanon and Palestine...

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it not the case that the dirty little secret in Middle Eastern affairs is that most governments could give a rat's behind about the plight of the Palestinians and they are merely convenient to use to bash the Jews and stroke domestic audiences?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The real pawns of Syria and Iran are the ordinary and law abiding citizens of both Lebanon and Palestine...

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it not the case that the dirty little secret in Middle Eastern affairs is that most governments could give a rat's behind about the plight of the Palestinians and they are merely convenient to use to bash the Jews and stroke domestic audiences?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is why most arab countries refused to take in palestinian refugees.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

If it had been that simple, Ray, all military bases in Syria would have been bombed by US warplanes and cruiser missiles during this weekend. As they weren't, i.e. US (and most others) sees a point in not reacting disproportionally. There is actually a consensus that the reaction should be proportionate, but since that word has no agreed definition the international discussion centers around what is proportionate.

I think the consensus that it should be proportionate stems from a similar logic that existed through much of the cold war, each side wants to win, but also each side wants to maintain the state of a "limited war" as the consequence of a full war would be too devastating for both sides. If you stop keeping things inside proportion and scale this scenario up to a full war this actually again (as during the cold war) includes Russian nukes fired at New York.

[irvman21]

Knowing that every military action has a political cost, Israel's response to any and all attacks should be proportionate. Thus far their response has been appropriate and proportionate and I hope for a swift conclusion, though I don't see that happening. Iran is pulling the strings and they are perfectly content with what is happening now. Lebanon needs to stand up to Hezbollah if they want this to end soon.

[Ray Zee]

arfin and irv,

the right thing seems to return in proportion. but as the turkey story shows all it does is encourage more attacks. nothing works like a punch in the nose when someone pokes you in the chest. unfortunately in this case it involves the killing of civilians on both sides. the only logical thing is for the people that hate israel to draw back and stop all aggession and let things quiet down. then they can point out if israel attacks first. and get international support. until then if they continue to be the instigators the world knows who is in the right.
in the right i mean israel versus hamas and hisballa. not israel against all those surrounding them. which comprises many ordinary people that just want to live.

[Cyrus]

Your points about proportionality are well taken. Let me add this, which is not unrelated to game theory:

If A is attacked by B and A reacts disproportionately but does not eliminate B, then the next time that B intends to attack he will know what to expect from A. Which means that either B will refrain from attacking (in which case, deterrence works), or B will attack more massively than originally intended, since the response will be devastating but not conclusive) in any case. In other words, the escalation of by one side raises the stakes for both sides, for the whole conflict.

...I dare not add the assumption that both sides are rational. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]