Dealers @ The Big Game

[RR]

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the dumbest thing about this post is it assumes only high limit players are [censored] at the poker table.

I saw someone evicted every night last time I was in Vegas and that was 1/2 NL -

if anything, the high limit game was ahead of the curve in it's smug superiority and crass behavior towards dealers - whereas now it's pretty normal to see someone bitching at the dealer for throwing out a 6% river card - (cause you know it's all deliberate, right?)

RB

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If someone playing 1/2 NL throws the cards in such a way that they will cut the dealer if they hit him they will soon show that player the door. If a high limit player does that they might get to keep trying until they hit their target.

[NicksDad1970]

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I believe I know where/who this was but will not say a word on here regarding it. It's not my place to bring this up.

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Why did you even post?

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I believe i know why he posted, but I'm not going to discuss it here.

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I actually LOL on that one.

I've never been a poker dealer but as a black jack dealer I've received much better tips from low stakes players.

I never expected someone betting 100$ a hand to tip me more than someone betting 5$ a hand. Actually I didn't really expect anything. The one thing I didn't like was that someone betting 100$ a hand thought he/she could treat me like $hit.

Fine, don't tip me but don't treat me like my ex-wife does either [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TheWorstPlayer]

I'm always amazed at how much low stakes players tip. I have seen plenty of 1/2 NL player win a $300 pot and tip $10. Incredible. They are losing players without any tipping and yet they are tipping away tons of cash due to completely random variance. I guess since they are destined to go BUTSO anyways, they might as well give it to the dealers instead of the other degenerates they are playing against, but it just boggles the mind how they can play poker and have absolutely no concept of how the game works.

[NicksDad1970]

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I agree with TStoneMBD. Its an outrage that the players are paying both the house(rake) and the dealer(tip). Imo the house recieves rake so they can pay the dealers..

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I guess I understand what you're saying but isn't that the way it's been?

Would it be better if the casinos doubled the rake, increased the dealers pay rate, then didn't allow tips?

I think we all see posts like this every once in a while. Then we see threads about how bad some dealers are. I would think if the burden was all put on the casinos to pay the dealer, they would make less, find something else to do with their life, and dealers with less skill would be dealing to us all.

While we're at it lets stop tipping servers too. Give them a flat hourly rate and give them very little motivation to be polite and prompt.

Next time you're waiting 45 minutes for your steak it will be because the server(possibly a former dealer) is smoking a joint out back because he doesn't give a crap if you're happy or not.

Giving them a little motivation to do their jobs well might serve us all well.


BTW - I'm not trying to sound like a jerk. I just disagree that we should stop tipping them. If you don't want to tip then that's you're option. I just hope if you don't tip you aren't one of the ones berating the dealers. I realize you specifically didn't say you don't tip. So that last part is for those that don't.

[TStoneMBD]

the thing is that casinos are going to charge as much as they can for their games. if they were required to pay the dealers' salaries it doesnt mean they can just double the rake, because players would now be less likely to play with higher rake. while the rake would likely go up a little bit, i imagine that the profit margins from casinos would go down on poker.

many dealers make $30/hr+ and i dont believe they should be entitled to make that much for a service job that requires little training and no college education. of course, many dealers are excellent and deserve this rate to keep them in the casinos but many do not. if the casinos were to pay dealers an hourly rate and tipping wasnt prevalent, dealers would probably make perhaps $17/hr which would be $13/hr less than they already make which is already $1.3/hr per player saved at a 10 handed table.

basically my point is that even if casinos were to up the rake to pay for the dealers salaries now that it comes out of the rake and not out of tipping, they would still rake $1.3/hr less per player than the players pay now with tips included.

the problem is that tipping dealers gives them incentive to do a better job which is the whole point. if the casino paid the dealer's salary they could ideally give them an incentive to deal more hands per hour but it wouldnt work in a time game setup as the only way to count is through rake. if the casino made all their games rake games and paid the dealers' salaries based on how many hands per hour they deal wed have good dealers and the house would weed out the bad ones as having dealers who deal less hands means less rake for them. by making everything a time game it really keeps the burden off the casino to hire good dealers. what do they care how many hands/hr are being dealt? they collect time, not rake.

having the players pay the dealers is a way to increase the casinos profit margins. if they paid the dealer salary they would make less money because they wouldnt be able to up the rake to compensante fully. if they could increase their profit margin that way they would. bottom line is that if casinos pay the dealers themselves dealers would no longer be overpaid (approx) $13/hr and the burden of dealer salary would be the burden of both the casino and players with a small rake increase saving the players alot of money.


again i really understand that dealers need to make money and i think they should make the most as possible, but its us that pays their salaries. us saying that we want dealers to make less money per hour is like an employer trying to pay his employees less. theres nothing really wrong with it. when i used to play 1/2NL live making $15/hr tipping $3/hr was alot of money for me especially in comparison to my hourly rate. of course now adays the hourly rate of us winning high limit players is so incredible that i could care less about $3/hr. i obviously dont. im just trying to project my opinions from an unbiased perspective.

[RR]

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if the casino made all their games rake games and paid the dealers' salaries based on how many hands per hour they deal wed have good dealers and the house would weed out the bad ones as having dealers who deal less hands means less rake for them.

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In the old days (long before my time) poker dealers would be on the same game all night (except breaks). The manager woudl tell him him "I want this game to drop $1500 tonight), if he foudn a way to make it drop $2k instead he would get a big chunk of the "extra" $500. Do you want dealers with an incentive to get more rake out of a game? The way things are right now the games are pretty honest, but we aren't that far removed from snatch games.

[TStoneMBD]

you really think dealers would start cheating pots to add to the rake? it seems it would be in the best interest for the casinos to make sure the rake is honest to avoid pissing off players. dont you think casinos would prevent dealers from doing this?

[NicksDad1970]

I agree with much of what you said.

Here comes the but part....

If dealers are so overpaid and it's so glorious then why do I see every casino I play poker at always in need of dealers. One time I was at a room asking why they can't open another table when there were plenty of empty tables and a list of people wanting to play. He said he didn't have any dealers. I jokingly told him I'd deal it. He told me if I had a gaming card then I could. I then shut up [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The way I see it you should tip a dealer if they're doing a good job. People tend to tip when they win a hand (I do). But as a former dealer (BJ) I'd find it totally cool if you tipped at the end of their down.

I can remember dealing to people and them saying (on many occasions) "I'll tip you once I get even". Now I know that's their choice but I think they should tip on service. No matter if they win or lose. If I've been a jerk to them then they shouldn't tip me a dime. If I've made their "night out at the casino" a better experience throw me a buck or two.

[Wetdog]

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if the casino made all their games rake games and paid the dealers' salaries based on how many hands per hour they deal wed have good dealers and the house would weed out the bad ones as having dealers who deal less hands means less rake for them.

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In the old days (long before my time) poker dealers would be on the same game all night (except breaks). The manager woudl tell him him "I want this game to drop $1500 tonight), if he foudn a way to make it drop $2k instead he would get a big chunk of the "extra" $500. Do you want dealers with an incentive to get more rake out of a game? The way things are right now the games are pretty honest, but we aren't that far removed from snatch games.

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I think that system would cause the dealer to prod the players to act quicker. I usually act promptly, but the last thing I'd want is a sheep dog snapping at my heels when I need time for a critical decision.

edit to fix quote tags

[VORP]

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you really think dealers would start cheating pots to add to the rake? it seems it would be in the best interest for the casinos to make sure the rake is honest to avoid pissing off players. dont you think casinos would prevent dealers from doing this?

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Most low limit players have no clue how the rake works. I could probably rake $10 every hand and 99% wouldn't catch it for days, if at all.

I used to work graveyard and if the last of a game was getting short the shift boss would often times come over on his own and lower the rake. The most common response from the players was "What's a rake?" Of course many said thanks but every other night or so I would also get a, "They take money out?!" from someone who had been playing for 7 hours straight.