NBA Playoffs Thread

[FlyWf]

Assani- You're absolutely right. If only Kobe had ever played with another really talented player....


Are you high right now?

[kidcolin]

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Let me guess: you don't watch the games.

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I've watched nearly every televised game this year. Please don't bother responding to me.

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Assani, stop replying to him you dumb ass.

[FlyWf]

Or take his money by prodding him more about Finals prop bets

[Taraz]

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Assani, stop replying to him you dumb ass.

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[Assani Fisher]

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Assani- You're absolutely right. If only Kobe had ever played with another really talented player....


Are you high right now?

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Yes, he played with Shaq. And he was very successful and I never heard any talk of him being a bad teamate. Then they had a fued, Shaq left, Kobe struggled, and he started getting called a bad teamate.

With MJ, he was called a bad teamate early, Scottie arrived, they started winning, and nobody called MJ a bad teamate anymore.


My point is that this "bad teammate" or "selfish" talk is mostly just made up and thats its the quality of your teamates that makes one look like better.

[anatta]

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All I will say about last night is that LeBron's performance was better than any post season performance Jordan EVER had. You can replace LeBron last night with Jordan in his prime and the Cavs lose that game 99 out of 100 times. That performance wasn't Jordanesque. It was LeBronesque, and the phrase Jordanesque is pretty much dead now as far as great postseason performances go. From now on it's LeBronesque. It's official. And this is coming from someone who has a lifesize cardboard cutout of Jordan in their spare bedroom.

The only NBA postseason performance greater than this since 1980 is Magic's 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists, when playing starting at center for Kareem, who was universally acknowledged as the greatest player in the league at that time, in game 6 of the finals. Oh, and he was a rookie. To further put in perspective how ridiculous that performance was imagine if Shaq was hurt during game 6 of the Lakers - Pacers Finals. Think Kobe could have started at center?

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Magic was 6 foot 9, what's the big freaking deal. It's not like he was a 6 foot pg playing center, he was a very tall PG playing center.

Also, I love C-Webb, but with McDyess out, Detroit isn't as nearly as good defensively with C-Webb on the floor.

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What's the big deal? He was a 20 year old pg who replaced the most dominant player in the game, Kareem, in game 6 of the Finals. He ended up playing every position on the floor that game, leading his team to the championship.

You make it sound like anyone who's 6'9" or taller should be able to play center effectively, which is absolutely ludicrous.

Steve Smith was about the same height as Magic. In his prime do you think he could give his team even 2 decent minutes at center?

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Ex-Laker Mychal Thompson on the radio today said people think Magic played center in that final game, he actually just jumped center. I don't think Magic guarded Caldwell Jones or Darrel Dawkins (who weren't that tough to guard anyways, but the point is, he didn't play center during the game), fairly certain that these guys didn't guard Magic either. Lakers had Norm Nixon to play point along with Magic, Magic probably posted up more without Kareem in there, he still had the ball a lot like a point given his sick stat line.

Regardless, its the greatest post season performance of all time, in Thompson's opinion, and mine.

[Mano]

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Assani- You're absolutely right. If only Kobe had ever played with another really talented player....


Are you high right now?

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Yes, he played with Shaq. And he was very successful and I never heard any talk of him being a bad teamate. Then they had a fued, Shaq left, Kobe struggled, and he started getting called a bad teamate.

With MJ, he was called a bad teamate early, Scottie arrived, they started winning, and nobody called MJ a bad teamate anymore.


My point is that this "bad teammate" or "selfish" talk is mostly just made up and thats its the quality of your teamates that makes one look like better.

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Funny how you remember Jordan being called selfish 20 years ago, but you don't recall anyone calling Kobe selfish 4-5 years ago with Shaq. I don't recall the talk about Jordan, but it was 20 years ago, and I may very well have forgotten about it, since I never paid much attention to the Bulls until they started winning championships (by the way, I hated them).

I am fairly certain the selfish talk started about their last championship year, and was highly publicised the next two years when Kobe & Shaq did not win and were feuding. Kobe has burned bridges with other teammates besides Shaq (Karl Malone for one). Whether or not Kobe actually is selfish is debateable, that he had the reputation even when Shaq was on his team is not.

[Assani Fisher]

I just yahoo searched for "michael jordan early career criticism", and the very first entry I got contained this exerpt:

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Then there was the hurt of growing whispers that suggested he was little more than a glorified scorer. It didn't seem to matter that his teams had been successful wherever he had gone previously, whether it be North Carolina or the Olympics. Or that the Lakers' Magic admits, "I have a few more horses than he does." As Jordan's points and shot attempts soared, so did criticism, some of it from people whom he respected and even envied.

Among them was Bird, who only the previous year had called Jordan "the best player in the league." He amended the statement, saying, "When he came into the league, I thought (Jordan) would be a great all-around player, but his game has completely changed. Right now, the only thing he does is shoot 30 times a game. I'd never want to play like that. He's got to play like that, I guess, but I would never ever want to take 30-to-35 shots a game. It's too much of a load every game."

Others followed, including Chamberlain, who questioned Jordan's shooting ability. Some were not quite as harsh. Said Houston Coach Bill Fitch: "Michael Jordan is a helluva player who has turned the Bulls into a good team. But it's deceiving the way they're using him. If you're asking me who the MVP is, that's something I can answer only after I've seen the final standings."

Jordan understands such criticism, even if his critics don't always seem to understand his motives. In three short years, Jordan has done virtually everything except win, a fact that hangs like a millstone around his neck.


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http://www.nba.com/jordan/hoop_86-87.html


As for Kobe, I honestly only remember all of his criticism coming directly from his relationship with Shaq, and based upon Shaq's lack of work ethic, I find it hard to blame Kobe for that. I don't remember anything with Malone, so perhaps you could enlighten me there. Certainly I don't remember any criticism when they were winning, and thats what it all comes down to.

[vhawk01]

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I'm pretty sure if we did some research especially the 63 in OT versus a very good Boston team, Jordan has had some pretty sick performances as well.

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MJ had many sick performances. This was one of them. I've never said otherwise.

But that wasn't as good as last night. Last night was a grind it out, no holds barred, all out defensive battle, in pivotal game 5 of the conference finals. Jordan's 63 was in an up and down game, in a round 1 series that the Bulls lost.

LeBron scored 29 of the last 30 points for his team, willing them to victory, in a hostile environment, with the refs against them, in a must win game 5 of the conference finals.

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Just thought I'd add, Jordan's 63 was in a 2OT game, just like LeBron's, but it was also a 135-131 game, not a 109-107 game. This doesn't mean they are equivalent, but it means you probably should discount the raw 63 a little bit. LeBron also had 9 boards and 7 assists, and I couldn't find the box for Jordan's game on a quick google.

[suzzer99]

And the Bulls lost that game. I thought I remembered it that way, but wasn't 100% sure until Bob Ryan mentioned it on PTI.