Israel's Attack on Lebanon and Hezbollah

[ACPlayer]

Yep.

[Sniper]

The Israel Air Force on Thursday scored a successful direct hit against Hezbollah's missile command center deployed in Tyre, which has been primarily responsible for targeting Haifa and its surroundings. The regional command center was located on the 12th floor of a Tyre building that the IAF destroyed.

The unit in Tyre controlled a large number of 220mm rockets manufactured in Syria, which had caused most of the Israeli civilian fatalities.

[Sniper]

IAF strikes Bekaa Valley Hezbollah base suspected to house long-range missiles (AP)

[ACPlayer]

Anybody see any other reports these lines

The logic appears to make some sense.

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But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been.

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[nicky g]

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Anybody see any other reports these lines

The logic appears to make some sense.

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But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been.

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Nice find. I read a quote from a Lebanese analyst arguing that they also have no need (and indeed would be stupid to) hide missiles in people's homes, as is often alleged without any evidence offered (by people who've rarely been anywhere near southern Lebanon), as they have a large network of reinforced bunkers throughout the Lebanese countryside to store arms in.

While hardly any evidence of Hizb Allah using "human shields" has been offered (gain on the news tonight, civilians were pleading for a lull in the Israeli shelling so that they could flee the villages they're trapped in), I notice that the very blog article linked to defending the incident of the Israeli children writing on shells noted that the army unit in question was preparing to shell Lebanon at the time, from the town the chidren lived in. I'd love to know how people would react to photos of Hizb ALlah allowing children to mill around them while they were preparing to shell Israel.

[Utah]

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ice find. I read a quote from a Lebanese analyst arguing that they also have no need (and indeed would be stupid to) hide missiles in people's homes, as is often alleged without any evidence offered (by people who've rarely been anywhere near southern Lebanon), as they have a large network of reinforced bunkers throughout the Lebanese countryside to store arms in.

While hardly any evidence of Hizb Allah using "human shields" has been offered (gain on the news tonight, civilians were pleading for a lull in the Israeli shelling so that they could flee the villages they're trapped in), I notice that the very blog article linked to defending the incident of the Israeli children writing on shells noted that the army unit in question was preparing to shell Lebanon at the time, from the town the chidren lived in. I'd love to know how people would react to photos of Hizb ALlah allowing children to mill around them while they were preparing to shell Israel.

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I dont know much about the current situation and so I cant comment much. But, isnt this really a non-sensical argument? Does it somehow make their actions different whether they hide with civilians or not because their whole agenda is to launch rockets indiscriminately at civilians to terrorize, kill, and maim? It seems to me you are suggesting:

A) Hide in civilians / intentionally bomb civilians = BAD
b) Dont hide in civilians / intentionally bomb civilians = Better or okay

What am I missing?

[BCPVP]

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What am I missing?

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To me, it brings into question why Israel has racked up hundreds of civilian deaths if Hezbollah is largely not hiding amongst them.

[Howard Beale]

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What am I missing?

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To me, it brings into question why Israel has racked up hundreds of civilian deaths if Hezbollah is largely not hiding amongst them.

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'...if Hezbollah is largely not hiding amongst them'. My own admitted prejudices may be causing me to read this as you saying: 'To me, it brings into question why Israel has racked up hundreds of civilian deaths since Hezbollah is largely not hiding amongst them'.

And what does 'largely' really mean? You make it sound like an excuse in case Hezbollah is proven to have been hiding amongst civilians so that it can be said 'Yes, well, not largely enough to account for all the civilian deaths'.

Link to a page with captioned pictures of the destruction in South Beirut. I would've expected civilian casualties in the many thousands if these were apartment buildings deliberately targeted by Israel without warning.

[Copernicus]

Given that the linked article is so inconsistent with other reporting, and that it appears on that bastion of fair and balanced salon.com, when its author has access to far more reputable publications, I will stick with the overwhelming opinion that HZB intentionally uses civilians as beards.

The criticism of Israel is consistently in terms of whether they have the right to use force in areas where HZB hides, not whether HZB hides amongst civilians.

In fact wasnt another Arab nation that called their use of civilian shields "cowardly"?

[BCPVP]

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'...if Hezbollah is largely not hiding amongst them'. My own admitted prejudices may be causing me to read this as you saying: 'To me, it brings into question why Israel has racked up hundreds of civilian deaths since Hezbollah is largely not hiding amongst them'.

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I used "if" because I can't possibly know whether Hezbollah is there or not. The Salon article notes that the military wing of Hezbollah does not reside in civilian areas but some of the political members and sympathizers do.

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And what does 'largely' really mean? You make it sound like an excuse in case Hezbollah is proven to have been hiding amongst civilians so that it can be said 'Yes, well, not largely enough to account for all the civilian deaths'.

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Say you have 1 Hezbollah fighter living in a town and 399 living outside of the town. Is Israel justified in killing 100 civilians to get to that 1 fighter?

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I would've expected civilian casualties in the many thousands if these were apartment buildings deliberately targeted by Israel without warning.

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IIRC, southern Beirut is mostly Hezbollah so there probably wouldn't be many civilians killed.