New Fight Question

[StregaChess]

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Look at boxing. There's so much money in boxing that it attracts the world's elite athletes and most powerful strikers. They get hit dozens and dozens of times. And it's not due to the gloves, as the only purpose of those is to protect their hands and prevent cuts on the face.

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You crack me up, it appears you also know nothing about boxing. Punchers position to have 8oz gloves you, those that fight on skills position for 10oz gloves. Random web search ten seconds later….
“The original function of protecting the fighter’s knuckles is still in effect, but now the extra padding is used for a different reason: to protect the opponent from an easy knockout. The extra padding will force the boxers to use extra strategy instead of pure brute force.”

[Colm]

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I get the impression that BJJ chokes are not essentially different than sport judo chokes.

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They are basically the same moves, you're right, with some minor technical differences in how the arms are positioned. That doesn't make them less deadly though.

Overall, I think you're looking at this the wrong way. You're saying that Muay Thai is closer to a deadly fight because of how often bones are broken. In Jiu Jitsu and other submission wrestling competitions, there would be a lot of broken bones if the fight wasn't stopped in time. I'm pretty sure that if Muay Thai fighters knew the incoming kick was going to break their leg and they had a chance to freeze time and stop the fight, they would! Muay Thai isn't more dangerous or deadly in a real situation. It just seems more dangerous because fighters can't avoid having their limbs broken in sporting events.

If you watch the UFC, there's this one fight between Tim Sylvia and Franck Mir where Mir breaks Sylvia's arm like a twig with an armbar (Sylvia refused to tap out and even wanted to keep fighting). Thank god we have tapouts in submission fighting, or that is how it would turn out every time...

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I see your point and agree that chokes are *potentially* more deadly. I'm looking at it from the point of which cointest *as it is played* is more dangerous, rules included. That's why I say Mauy Thai more like real fighting, because it actually IS real fighting. It hurts more in the real world and will hurt you moree in the real world so you are risking your body more in the real world in Muay Thai than in UFC.

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have you ever seen a mt match? all the techniques in mt are legal in mma. in mt, if somebody gets a bone broken, they drop to a knee and get counted out. you are no more likely to get a bone broken in mt than mma. you are showing a huge lack of knowledge of mt. if somebody catches a knee in the rib and their rib breaks, they either tough it out, or fall down and get counted out, just like in boxing. if they get their shin broken, the fight is stopped, same as in mma. boxing and mt are more dangerous than mma, only because of the gloves allowing for more continuous blunt force trama to the head. this bone breaking nonsense is retarded.

[Colm]

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Look at boxing. There's so much money in boxing that it attracts the world's elite athletes and most powerful strikers. They get hit dozens and dozens of times. And it's not due to the gloves, as the only purpose of those is to protect their hands and prevent cuts on the face.

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You crack me up, it appears you also know nothing about boxing. Punchers position to have 8oz gloves you, those that fight on skills position for 10oz gloves. Random web search ten seconds later….
“The original function of protecting the fighter’s knuckles is still in effect, but now the extra padding is used for a different reason: to protect the opponent from an easy knockout. The extra padding will force the boxers to use extra strategy instead of pure brute force.”

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this is a contested view. the opposite is taken by many, and the person that wrote that article is an expert on home decorating, not boxing.

[kdotsky]

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Look at boxing. There's so much money in boxing that it attracts the world's elite athletes and most powerful strikers. They get hit dozens and dozens of times. And it's not due to the gloves, as the only purpose of those is to protect their hands and prevent cuts on the face.

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You crack me up, it appears you also know nothing about boxing. Punchers position to have 8oz gloves you, those that fight on skills position for 10oz gloves. Random web search ten seconds later….
“The original function of protecting the fighter’s knuckles is still in effect, but now the extra padding is used for a different reason: to protect the opponent from an easy knockout. The extra padding will force the boxers to use extra strategy instead of pure brute force.”

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You said that if someone isn't knocked out after 3 strikes, the striker has a problem with their power.

You're arguing that the UFC professionals right now have a problem with their power. Find one person that has already posted in this thread to agree with you.

And if there were some "magical" striking technique as you claim, the probability it wouldn't have been discovered and utilized by professional fighters right now is practically zero. (You mentioned pressure points for example, hah!).

I agree with you: unicorns could exist. Though it's not likely.

[StregaChess]

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this is a contested view. the opposite is taken by many, and the person that wrote that article is an expert on home decorating, not boxing.

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Bunk, look at boxing history and the weight of gloves have often been a condition in the agreements.

[kdotsky]

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this is a contested view. the opposite is taken by many, and the person that wrote that article is an expert on home decorating, not boxing.

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Bunk, look at boxing history and the weight of gloves have often been a condition in the agreements.

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First you claimed if the opponent is not unconscious after three strikes then you have a problem with your power.

Now you claim boxer's can't be used as a counterexample because they wear gloves.

So you're claiming if boxers didn't wear gloves, all fights would either be over after 3 punches, or all boxers have a problem with their power? Interesting, I wonder which one it is...

[Catyoul]

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Another point regarding the marital artist being such a deep field that needs to brought up, if you got some real specialty areas and I’m not sure where I stand on this but… you have folks like George Dillman and you need to account for what they bring to the table and its not the normal martial arts approach. If you are not familiar with Dillman just google his name and pressure points, watch some videos… you’ll get the idea…

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You mean... that George Dillman whose "chi technique" got ridiculed on National Geographic ?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=g-x4iJM2aU4

[Hume]

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I think everyone is underestimating the martial arts expert and going with the UFC guy.

HOW DOES EVERYONE THINK THAT BRUCE LEE WOULD DO AGAINST A TOP UFC GUY? I'm inclined to think he would win. If you hear the stories about Bruce's abilities it makes you think that he would put most of these guys to shame. He was in tip-top shape and fast as a mo-fo.

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Bruce lee was 5'7 1/2" and ~130lbs. He would obviously stand no chance against a good heavy weight.

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And yeah, Navy SEAL gets his ass kicked, as does street fighter. I think boxer can stand a chance so long as he has some mediocre grappling skills (see Vitor Belfort in UFC).

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Belfort studied in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu with the Gracie family, namely Carlson Gracie. He received a black belt under Carlson.

link

[Smasharoo]

Boxer, not close in the slightest, although I'm sure the UFC marketing team would be ecstatic to read this thread. The best hand to hand fighter in the world would be the guy who, surprise surprise, competes in the hand to hand competitions involving the most money. Capitalism at it's finest. The idea that say, Floyd Mayweather Jr. wouldn't be a 2 to 1 favorite against the best MMA fighter at the same weight is beyond ludicrous.

[silvershade]

I think the question is interesting because people probably have pre-conceived ideas about what each type represents. My vote goes for the martial artist, probably the best in the world is going to come from a soft rather than hard school ( which means they'd never agree to take part anyway as the event is totally in conflict with their philosophy ). These guys often aren't awesome physique wise but they are very fast, very skilled and train to end conflict extremely quickly. I can remember training under a guy who had trained in China for most of his life, he was short and slight, probably no more than 7-8 stone and totally harmless looking, we shared the training area with a Taekwondo class and as a demonstration of effectiveness as a form of self defence this master agreed to spar with the Taekwondo teacher ( a competitive martial artist I guess around 13-13.5 stone ), the fight ended almost instantaneously with a Taekwondo teacher flying about 5 metres through the air and landing dazed, my teacher had hardly moved to basically disable his opponent uttely in spite of age, height, weight and reach disadvantages and a not unskilled opponent.

My point is that the guy who did this doesnt pretend he's the best but is still learning from those who are better. Technique and physique probably wont save you from someone who basically wins before the fight starts ( because they are faster than you are and will disable you with one move meaning you cannot err in any way ), the class was in Tai Chi but the master concerned was also proficient in the full range of soft style arts including Baguazhang and others and had trained and mastered the better known hard forms prior to training in the softer forms.

The only guy who'd have a chance would be the UFC type if he can get a lock of some sort and manage to hold it but I doubt that he would be able to achieve this against a the best martial artist alive.