Bots in PartyPoker's 6-max Limit games?

[stigmata]

Any other ideas about how we could have a co-ordinated bot-detection system at our end, rather than relying on the poker sites?

[gone.flying]

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gone,

You can't sue someone for using all resources available to them, to beat you at a game [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Sniper, I don't believe this is true for one second.

It's a bit like saying the gun manufacturers/dealers aren't liable for crimes committed using their products. Yes, we agree on that I hope. Now imagine that a certain gun manufacturer provided detailed instructions with every weapon sold that explained how to use the weapon to commit the perfect murder/robbery etc...picture changes somewhat huh?

Now bearing this thought in mind, take a look at the cheat's web site...

Afaik, incitement & conspiracy to defraud are crimes, whether it is via a game of chance, skill, the stock market or whatever

I still believe it is a simple matter to respectfully insist that primary ISP suspend connectivity to his web site - let's begin by running him out of town

[Hume]

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I still believe it is a simple matter to respectfully insist that primary ISP suspend connectivity to his web site - let's begin by running him out of town

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Censoring web sites is a "simple matter". I know you don't like bots, but geez.

Edit: Cliff notes: Freedom of speech > bot-free poker games

[Sciolist]

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Any other ideas about how we could have a co-ordinated bot-detection system at our end, rather than relying on the poker sites?

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This is actually an interesting way of looking at shared player databases. If you had an app that created a shared database of all its players (i.e, it stores all their hands), run by someone trustworthy, which had no other purpose, it'd be an interesting way to look at potential bot play - it could perhaps create a new factor in an "arms race", in that instead of it just being the site and the programmer, it'd be the site, the programmer, and the DB owners.

Shared databases are against PokerStars' TOS though (for example), but that's because it gives players information they shouldn't already have, whilst if the idea is to spot bots and to pass that info on to the site as well as the players, maybe it'd be fine.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

I guess shared databases are illegal to use for a player, Sciolist, not for a non-player? I am seriously starting to consider if we should get together and drop $50/month each to some trustworthy guy and he could make this his full time job and he could work independently from the sites and also use i.e. this forum to put them under heavy pressure when something is not right and applaud those sites who are rather clean.

[Sciolist]

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I guess shared databases are illegal to use for a player, Sciolist, not for a non-player? I am seriously starting to consider if we should get together and drop $50/month each to some trustworthy guy and he could make this his full time job and he could work independently from the sites and also use i.e. this forum to put them under heavy pressure when something is not right and applaud those sites who are rather clean.

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Yeh, it'd be a really interesting thing to do. I sent this link to a friend (who is looking for a poker coding project), though I suppose anything related to me isn't really independent to the sites. One of the problems here is that you're appealing to altruistic players to help everyone else. What do players get out of it directly if they contribute? Early warning of who may be a bot? That might break the TOS in that it'd be sharing information otherwise not available: You'd be telling people "OK, he's 30 vpip, 2.1 AGF, defends his BB 80% of the time" or whatever.

Perhaps involvement from the sites would be useful: They could pay the creator each month, the players who want to help can put forward a couple of dollars, etc. Perhaps the sites could provide some data too, though privacy t&c might prevent that.

[Sciolist]

Assuming that a site dedicates $N towards catching bots. If they can outsource part of that to a more effective method, then perhaps they would. Assuming they wouldn't need to send data, but instead perhaps the external database pays players to receive theirs.

Gathering data from several sites would make it more effective, because a ring on one site would presumably also work on another with a little modification.

The Griffin Investigations of online poker?

[N 82 50 24]

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I guess shared databases are illegal to use for a player, Sciolist, not for a non-player? I am seriously starting to consider if we should get together and drop $50/month each to some trustworthy guy and he could make this his full time job and he could work independently from the sites and also use i.e. this forum to put them under heavy pressure when something is not right and applaud those sites who are rather clean.

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Yeh, it'd be a really interesting thing to do. I sent this link to a friend (who is looking for a poker coding project), though I suppose anything related to me isn't really independent to the sites. One of the problems here is that you're appealing to altruistic players to help everyone else. What do players get out of it directly if they contribute? Early warning of who may be a bot? That might break the TOS in that it'd be sharing information otherwise not available: You'd be telling people "OK, he's 30 vpip, 2.1 AGF, defends his BB 80% of the time" or whatever.
Perhaps involvement from the sites would be useful: They could pay the creator each month, the players who want to help can put forward a couple of dollars, etc. Perhaps the sites could provide some data too, though privacy t&c might prevent that.

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I wouldn't have too much trouble creating something like this. I already have most of the software necessary to get it done.

But I wouldn't do it without some sort of blessing from the poker sites, I already have enough on my mind thinking about how to stay within the rules on the MTT data results side of things.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

It has to be some altruism involved as everybody should be able to send him info (also non-funders) and for it to be effective credible suspicions should be spread to everybody including non-funders, so being a funder shouldn't give you any advantage as we then move into "cheat the cheaters"-territory and that never ends well. For many here $50/month is insignificant, so it could be possible to get it up and running.

[Sciolist]

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I wouldn't have too much trouble creating something like this. I already have most of the software necessary to get it done.

But I wouldn't do it without some sort of blessing from the poker sites, I already have enough on my mind thinking about how to stay within the rules on the MTT data results side of things.

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I have no doubt that you'd do a good job of it, but I'd be slightly concerned about a conflict of interests again. What if a site decided that they didn't like your software anymore, and wanted to remove their data from it? It'd sour your relations with other projects too, whether on your side or theirs.

But like I just said, I'm in just about the worst position possible to judge any potential conflicts of interest :]