Curtains vs PoG

[NajdorfDefense]

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...Bf5, Nd4 Be4, 0-0 Bc5. How about this?

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Exactly. We are in good shape, at worst an even position for us. He will Nc3 and we can exchange white bishops or castle.
After ...Bf5 we are already equal.

[NajdorfDefense]

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I mean, don’t be so smart, with BLACK we are going to BUST the English by getting a knight at c2 with check, ... Qc7 is stupid, Bf5 gets rebuked and the light squares on the queen side look silly.

... Nb4
Qb3 Bf5
Nd4 Be4

Yes let’s beat him with just a couple of pieces, that’s the ticket, we don’t even need our kingside.
Repeat after me, all of your pieces must play chess.


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WTF is wrong with people? Nobody said we were going to 'bust' the English Opening! Nobody said we were going to fork Curtains with check here, we are simply developing our pieces to their proper squares. He's had to move his Q 3 times already, we are not 'behind' in any definition of the word.
The b1-diagonal is the right place for our bishop, it is not 'rebuked' there in any way, shape, or form, evidently you are scared of shadows. Who said we don't care about our kingside? Please don't comment with useless strawmen, okay? Greg is trying to control certain squares and files, we are defending by controlling other squared, diagonals, and files, that's how it works. No one is trying to bust the English by move 9.

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If its theory and playable fine, it does not fit my style and I don’t see the point.

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No one cares about your style, and if you won't take more than 5 seconds to understand the position, please don't offer suggestions. Fair?
We're trying to do better than 'I don't have a plan so useless Be7 is the pick since I don't care to understand what's going on here.'

I agree Qc7 is stupid.

After moving Bishop to e4 it works with both of our knights, allows us to move the a8-rook to the c-file and after Bc5 all of our minor pieces are working together. If he plays f3 and a3 we can always play the super-solid Bg6 and Nc6 with a n excellent defensive position, better kingside, soon-to-be castled king and linked rooks.
If he plays Be3 to block our bishop we develop our Queen to Qb6 hitting his d4 knight a second time and doubly-protecting the b4 knight.

Anyone who thinks this is bad for black has NOT looked at the resulting position[s], period.

[Stephen H]

I keep half writing up posts and then deleting them. I really have no idea what I'm doing, I guess. I've looked over tons of moves after Bc5 and Be5 - I'll just admit right now I have no clue at all what happens after Be7.
After Bc5 a3 Nc6, what do we expect next from curtains? Castle? If a castle, what happens after we castle as well (can we castle as well)? If not, then what? An attack on the bishop, either from his own bishop or the queen?
I think if he doesn't attack our bishop right away, we can push d4, although that leaves our f7 pawn pretty weak until we castle or Be6. I'm not sure when we get time to castle if we respond to O-O with d4, though.
I think we have a pretty good plan with Bf5 - Bf5 Nd4 Be4 O-O Bc5. However, we seem to be a bit behind just because it's white's move, white's castled and we haven't, and our attack on the knight at d4 isn't very good yet as the bishop is also guarding the b4 knight. However, we do have all 4 minor pieces in play, and white still has 2 languishing on the back rank, so hopefully we can gain back enough time to castle while white moves out the remaining minors. I don't see any pressing attack threats from this position for white, so we may be able to castle as soon as the next move.

I'm not sure which I like better here yet. I'm more sure we'll get a safe king with Bc5, but I think we have more space with Be5. I also think we're less likely to end up with a minor piece massacre with Be5 - some of the lines I played through with Bc5 ended in white being able to force massive tradeoffs, which we don't want if we can afford it.

[StregaChess]

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WTF is wrong with people? Nobody said we were going to 'bust' the English Opening! Nobody said we were going to fork Curtains with check here, we are simply developing our pieces to their proper squares.

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Disagree, Be4 is not its proper square.



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Who said we don't care about our kingside? Please don't comment with useless strawmen, okay?

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I'm not even sure what the hell that means. I think its very useful to think in general terms in chess and try to follow a basic sort flow. If you don't grasp that sorry...





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No one cares about your style, and if you won't take more than 5 seconds to understand the position, please don't offer suggestions. Fair?

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You are very rude with the way you are approaching all this, it does not show well and its a hurtful attitude. I've taken more than 30 years to understand these positions and I've taken more than 5 seconds on this one.

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We're trying to do better than 'I don't have a plan so useless Be7 is the pick since I don't care to understand what's going on here.'

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It's not lack of plan its more of Nb4 was a waste of time and we need to get back on track. Understanding what's going on here is not the issue.



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Anyone who thinks this is bad for black has NOT looked at the resulting position[s], period.

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OK, I guess will see... I don't agree.

[chuckleslovakian]

1. c4 e5
2. g3 Nf6
3. Bg2 c6
4. d4 exd4
5. Qxd4 d5
6. cxd5 cxd5
7. Nf3 Nc6
8. Qd3 Nb4
9. Qb3


Curtains

PoG

The only way I'm doing a revote this time is if I some how missed a move

[chuckleslovakian]

Also, from now on bold any moves you want nominated for the poll. It will make it easier on me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[NajdorfDefense]

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It's not lack of plan

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You haven't offered a plan yet, you did know that, right?
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its more of Nb4 was a waste of time and we need to get back on track.

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Again, you don't understand the position, nor have you explained why you think it was a waste, nor have you suggested what track we should be on, just said "I don't like X, play Be7' which multiple posters have pointed out is flawed here, esp considering c5 is the right square for that bishop.

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Understanding what's going on here is not the issue.


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Spoken like someone who doesn't understand what's going on, and who hasn't offered any plan, just inane generalities.


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OK, I guess will see... I don't agree.

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See above.

[xorbie]

what is the point of Bc5 right now?

[NajdorfDefense]

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what is the point of Bc5 right now?

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I don't see any, it only fits after ...Bf5, Nd4 Be4, o-o and then Bc5, where it hits White's knight on d4 and on the diagonal with White's king. Right now it does nothing. I guess some people are just dying to move the bishop whether it needs it or not.

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]

I think we have a pretty good plan with Bf5 - Bf5 Nd4 Be4 O-O Bc5. However, we seem to be a bit behind just because it's white's move, white's castled and we haven't, and our attack on the knight at d4 isn't very good yet as the bishop is also guarding the b4 knight. However, we do have all 4 minor pieces in play, and white still has 2 languishing on the back rank,

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We are not behind, we have developed our minor pieces, are about to castle and link our rooks/back rank, he has moved his Q 3 times and is still not developed. We are ahead, a solid achievement for Black at this point. [At worst we are even.]
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- some of the lines I played through with Bc5 ended in white being able to force massive tradeoffs, which we don't want if we can afford it.

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I disagree, I don't think Greg wants to liquidate 6-8 minor pieces off leaving a dry endgame where we control the c-file and perhaps e/b-file as well, it will likely be drawn and White's winning chances are very small as long as we don't hang the d-pawn.