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#401
11-19-2005, 08:47 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
(please don't read this as total disrespect and ban me, cause this is how I truely feel) I think this is a clear case where JJ is ahead of AQ, for MANY of the reasons stated and repeating them is just a waste of time. I think this comes down to the fact that mason won't admit he's wrong cause he's scared he'll lose credibility as a "poker pro who knows it and is good enough to sell books" cause no one wants to buy books from someone who is "wrong." The truth is everyone is wrong sometimes, and mason just needs to admit it. As far as the hand goes, I would LOVE to have a poll done of all NL "winning players" and see the % of each AQ vs. JJ. I'm quite confident JJ would be WAY WAY AHEAD. [/ QUOTE ] In the simple example given JJ is 40-15 against AQ assuming both shut down after the flop. I maintain many times a player will extract value from AQ on the turn and river when they hit the flop. I have been told I am stupid because JJ will commit no more $ to the pot with an over card, so I asked a friend who is a winning player in the Commerce $10 -$20 and $20 - $40 games where you regularly find some of the best NL players is the game. I asked him if he had JJ (after a called reraise) and the the flop came with an over card and he was check called on the flop and checked to on the turn what would he do? Here's what he said. "Great question. The second continuation bet, on the turn, is one of the toughest decisions of all. It seems if you do make it you win right there about 1/3 of the time. The other 1/3 you call and they call and you are faced with a river decision (much easier.) Or the other 1/3 you get raised. In your case, with JJ vs. an overcard and position, I would bet again. If he calls and checks the river I would check also." So I still believe AQ extracts extra EV from JJ turn and river (over and above the 2% of the time J hits turn or river). I can't prove it, and neither can the dissenters, so I will officially stop posting on this thread. Everyone can Paypal me $5 to shut my stupid ass up!! JK, love you guys and your patience! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] 
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#403
11-19-2005, 09:18 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
You have to consider NL in a way entirely different from the super-mathematical world of limit, and you're approach to the problem is irrelevant...sorry. [/ QUOTE ] This is something of a pet peeve of mine. Even though it is often of a dubious level of practicality, breaking hands into mathematical terms is essentially THE way to do so, limit or no. This notion of mathematical analysis being 'pointless' because there are many variables in terms of randomness, player's tendencies, actions on later streets, physical tells, etc. is completely bogus. These things are intensely important, and probably (though I don't feel like arguing about it] MUCH more important to your bottom line than 'the maths': for example, the ability to narrow an opponent's hand range to a more specific set of hands is probably going to mean a lot more profit than the ability to more quickly run through the relevant equity calculations on that range. That doesn't mean that the math is irrelevant. Anyway, with that aside, I'm book-marking this post, because it is awesome. Not for the typical reasons, though. I will not elaborate.
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#404
11-19-2005, 09:36 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You have to consider NL in a way entirely different from the super-mathematical world of limit, and you're approach to the problem is irrelevant...sorry. [/ QUOTE ] This is something of a pet peeve of mine. Even though it is often of a dubious level of practicality, breaking hands into mathematical terms is essentially THE way to do so, limit or no. This notion of mathematical analysis being 'pointless' because there are many variables in terms of randomness, player's tendencies, actions on later streets, physical tells, etc. is completely bogus. These things are intensely important, and probably (though I don't feel like arguing about it] MUCH more important to your bottom line than 'the maths': for example, the ability to narrow an opponent's hand range to a more specific set of hands is probably going to mean a lot more profit than the ability to more quickly run through the relevant equity calculations on that range. That doesn't mean that the math is irrelevant. Anyway, with that aside, I'm book-marking this post, because it is awesome. Not for the typical reasons, though. I will not elaborate. [/ QUOTE ] Will you at least let others elaborate for you? Just kidding, enjoyed your comments, thank you.
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#405
11-19-2005, 09:43 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
You couldn't even figure out the right question to ask your friend. I will let others elaborate. [/ QUOTE ] How is responding to this guy fun for you anymore? Play a couple of hours of poker, take someone to The French Laundry and write a trip report already!
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#406
11-19-2005, 09:45 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You couldn't even figure out the right question to ask your friend. I will let others elaborate. [/ QUOTE ] How is responding to this guy fun for you anymore? Play a couple of hours of poker, take someone to The French Laundry and write a trip report already! [/ QUOTE ] Your IQ must be above room temerature unlike your masked friend!
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#407
11-19-2005, 09:59 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You couldn't even figure out the right question to ask your friend. I will let others elaborate. [/ QUOTE ] How is responding to this guy fun for you anymore? Play a couple of hours of poker, take someone to The French Laundry and write a trip report already! [/ QUOTE ] I'm playing right now, 10/25 and 25/50 on UB. Come play!
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#408
11-19-2005, 10:00 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You couldn't even figure out the right question to ask your friend. I will let others elaborate. [/ QUOTE ] How is responding to this guy fun for you anymore? Play a couple of hours of poker, take someone to The French Laundry and write a trip report already! [/ QUOTE ] Your IQ must be above room temerature unlike your masked friend! [/ QUOTE ] "LOL" GOOD ONE!
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#409
11-19-2005, 10:09 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You couldn't even figure out the right question to ask your friend. I will let others elaborate. [/ QUOTE ] How is responding to this guy fun for you anymore? Play a couple of hours of poker, take someone to The French Laundry and write a trip report already! [/ QUOTE ] Your IQ must be above room temerature unlike your masked friend! [/ QUOTE ] "LOL" GOOD ONE! [/ QUOTE ] I know its not true, you know I respect your ass. Someday I'm going to be smarter at poker and you may not respect me, but at least you wont spit on me all the time!
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