tell me what you think of splitting 'a&e' into a separate forum

[diebitter]

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DB - is what you really want an "A&E Reviews" Forum?

Because as far as I can tell, Lost / 24 / Sopranos threads, that are A&E, but not reviews, are very popular.

-Al

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It'll become what it becomes. If it becomes that, I'd be happy - it'd be a great complement to OOT. I'd like to think it would have discussion of plot, or the specifics of a track, or the underlying subtext of a chapter in a book, or discussion about specific characters in Deadwood... but it'll be what it will be, as determined by the posters.

[edtost]

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db,

"I remain unconvinced by your arguments"

What elements of my arguments do you disagree with? Blarg, Matt, me, tdarko, PDPG are just a few of the posters who have explained why OOT will lose much of its interest to us if it is no longer the center of A&E discussions. Do you not believe that? Do you not think others share that sentiment? Do you not think that would have impact on OOT traffic?

"as you remain unconvinced by mine"

Huh? I believe I have agreed with most of your arguments. Separating the A&E forum would create a popular forum that would on average have a higher level of intelligent discourse than OOT. Isn't that your general point?

Again, I'm curious which of my specific points explaining why a split would likely reduce total traffic to 2+2 you disagree with.

As for elwood's post, he pretty much hit the nail right on the head in terms of the analysis that an online company does in making a decision like this. First step in the analysis is something I did very early on in this thread. Take the existing asset (OOT). Write up a description of what that asset becomes after the change. Is that asset still as compelling as it was prior? If not, how much less compelling is it and is the change significant? This is a basic analysis that is done all the time by content/discussion-based sites.

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Very good post, El D. I have to agree OOT would become less compelling to me. The percentage of garbage compared to good threads would go up even further, and it's already a precarious balance and always has been. Splitting the forum would make OOT much more of a quick browse and yer outta there kind of deal, for me. That kind of thing might harm the OOT community, if enough people feel the same way.

Whether the resulting A&E community would provide enough value to people, and traffic to the site, to make up for OOT's losing some of its luster, I dunno. I think OOT would still have a heck of a lot of traffic, especially since A&E won't be specifically banned from OOT anyway, per Mat. It would just probably be a place I'd have less fun visiting.

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A lot of the best OOT posters have expressed similar sentiments. With these posters no longer making OOT as entertaining, many other posters will also choose not to spend as much time here, EVEN IF THEY NEVER READ A&E THREADS! Crappy threads often get the traffic they do mainly because of 1 or 2 really good posters. If those posters move to the new A&E forum, the decrease in OOT traffic will be far greater than the OOT->A&E shift in traffic.

[El Diablo]

db,

I don't disagree that an A&E forum would be better for the needs of those people who specifically want a place on 2+2 to discuss A&E exclusively.

However, that likely does not coincide with generating the most traffic at the site.

[diebitter]

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Do you really think I'm alone in feeling it's a waste of time to bother posting them?

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I'm guessing like 8 people agree with you and unfortunately they are mostly mods/administrators

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Well, while there's nowhere for people to see these things without completely immersing themselves in OOT, you're not gonna get much fresh bloods doing their own reviews; and if they do immerse themselves in OOT, their first review will tell them what a lot of effort gets you: whining and bitching, on the whole, for anyone giving it a go.

So thanks for pointing out the low numbers doing it - and I think it's pretty obvious why - it needs a forum to flourish.

you guys have a seriously distorted view of what happens to a first-time (or even experienced) reviewer/anyone posting significant details about entertainment stuff that is self-penned. Maybe you all should try one for yourself.

[BluffTHIS!]

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Everything you ask in your post, I've explained in detail in previous posts in this thread.

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El D,

I reviewed all your posts in this thread, and it is possible I missed your commenting on the followinng question from my post above, but I don't think so.

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Finally, there is an easy way to prove all this, which Matt (Sklansky) has alluded to, and that is to try it with the readiness to go back to the old way if it doesn't work regarding traffic for the site and individual forums in question. Or do you object to a trial because you think there is a fairly good chance it might not have the negative effects you are predicting but still wouldn't meet your personal preferences, or that somehow such a split will irrevocably drive away posters who then won't come back if the old setup is restored after a split didn't work?

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So if you have addressed this question of splitting then going back if it didn't work, and believe it would still have dire long-term effects, then please direct me to those comments.

Bluff

[Tron]

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how about, if it's an 'a&e' topic, put 'A&E: " in the title, like we do with 'OT' in non-ot forums

then those that don't like OOT can just scan for A&E: or even do a title search for threads with 'A&E:' in the title...

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best idea in the thread

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Did everyone read this? Just checking.

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I'd like to hear someone tell me why this wouldn't work.

[pryor15]

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their first review will tell them what a lot of effort gets you: whining and bitching, on the whole, for anyone giving it a go.

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i can verify this. the amount of grief i get is pretty high and it's usually just the same issues over and over again that have already been resolved.

[Blarg]

Definitely agreed that there's little point in doing a movie review in OOT now, and that once you and pryor stop, movie reviews that have even the slightest effort put into them will probably be more or less gone.

I could only muster I think two of them before thinking, ah, what's the point.

[snagglepuss]

diebitter,

you continue to fail to address, or possibly comprehend, any of the points el diablo has repeatedly made clear in this thread, particularly the one regarding the bottom line for 2+2 publishing.

also, please stop with the assertion that your threads get 'snowed over' and 'flushed' because the signal is too high in oot. they do not receive this 'more exposure' you so bizzarely seek because no one cares.

[El Diablo]

bt: I wrote "The fact that you can take back the split doesn't matter. Once you lose a forum member, they're likely to stay gone." It is trivially easy to get someone to stop frequenting a forum like OOT. It is orders of magnitude harder to get them back or get new contributing members.

db: "you guys have a seriously distorted view of what happens to a first-time (or even experienced) reviewer/anyone posting significant details about entertainment stuff that is self-penned." If I make such a post about the latest Feist album, it will likely not get much play. If I make such a post about the latest Kelly Clarkson album, it will likely generate a lot of discussion. Why is this so hard for you to understand?