"Jesus" advises Yang to stiff dealers? - Page 40

David Sklansky · #**391** 07-21-2007, 03:19 AM

If CF made an unintentional false statement in front of you, you should be upset not at him but rather at Harrah's for not allowing you to correct it.

For those who don't already realize it, the issue boils down to this: Poker dealers make more than the amount that would be expected based on supply and demand. As do valet parkers and blackjack dealers at the Wynn. The main reason is that tips are insignificant money to wealthy gamblers yet employers can't ask for kickbacks like they do in strip clubs. Professional poker players tip less than tourists because they understand this and because tipping directly affects their income. Poker dealers don't gripe about the smaller tips from pros, even though they know that if everybody tipped like them their income would be more in line with the laws of supply and demand. Because those pros are shills for them to get the bigger tips from the tourists.

But in return for not griping about those smaller tips, they think they should expect in return that the pros don't go out of their way to influence the tourists to tip less. Even if deep down they realize they don't "deserve" those tips. Personally I would be willing to abide by that agreement if I did hear them admit how lucky they were to be paid more than the nurses I asked about previously.

ericicecream · #**392** 07-21-2007, 04:35 AM

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If CF made an unintentional false statement in front of you, you should be upset not at him but rather at Harrah's for not allowing you to correct it.

For those who don't already realize it, the issue boils down to this: Poker dealers make more than the amount that would be expected based on supply and demand. As do valet parkers and blackjack dealers at the Wynn. The main reason is that tips are insignificant money to wealthy gamblers yet employers can't ask for kickbacks like they do in strip clubs. Professional poker players tip less than tourists because they understand this and because tipping directly affects their income. Poker dealers don't gripe about the smaller tips from pros, even though they know that if everybody tipped like them their income would be more in line with the laws of supply and demand. Because those pros are shills for them to get the bigger tips from the tourists.

But in return for not griping about those smaller tips, they think they should expect in return that the pros don't go out of their way to influence the tourists to tip less. Even if deep down they realize they don't "deserve" those tips. Personally I would be willing to abide by that agreement if I did hear them admit how lucky they were to be paid more than the nurses I asked about previously.

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Good dealers are in low supply and high demand.

daryn · #**393** 07-21-2007, 08:55 AM

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As i said before if CF just gave all the facts and as he figured them and said "Jerry now you do want you want" instead of saying " I Recommemd zero" this would never be an issue anyhow.

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what if yang specifically asked ferguson, "so chris, what do you recommend?"

do you still think ferguson should have said, "jerry man, it's entirely up to you!"

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11000+ posts on a computer website

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they have the internet on computers now??

ncpokeresq · #**394** 07-21-2007, 06:43 PM

Pkrporcupine
Given that you have said you do not know and will not know how much a down will be worth until the final check is issued, how would asking for information about amount per down have been helpful? Would you have been happy if CF had provided simply the total from the prize pool allocated to dealers? If a winner learning that amount thinks it is sufficient, does that make him/her a stiff?
If the amount for this year comes out be better than $50 per hour as seems certain based on the analyses, you don't really think any of the winners should have toked more do you? Be honest, please.

BobK · #**395** 07-22-2007, 12:18 AM

I'm not going to read the entire thread to find out if this has already been discussed.

Something is wrong with this picture.

From what I've read 700 dealers get 60% of the tip pie. Doesn't that mean there should actually be 1166 people in total getting some portion of the tips? How can so many others be worth tipping? Do they put in equivalent effort?

Mitch Evans · #**396** 07-22-2007, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to read the entire thread to find out if this has already been discussed.

Something is wrong with this picture.

From what I've read 700 dealers get 60% of the tip pie. Doesn't that mean there should actually be 1166 people in total getting some portion of the tips? How can so many others be worth tipping? Do they put in equivalent effort?

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With almost 400 posts in this thread, of course this has been discussed... like the first few posts. The dealers are paid per down dealt. Final table dealers will get a bit more for each down they dealt at the final table.

Clancey · #**397** 07-22-2007, 12:54 AM

I really do not understand what is so misleading about what Chris said to Jerry.

I am good friends with someone who deals poker at a casino, and I am working on getting a job as a dealer as well. Tournament AND Cash dealers split their tips with other employees(chip runners, servers, etc). Hell, some poker dealers need to pool their tips with the pit(blackjack dealers, etc). It seems to me that pkrporcupine is just upset that Chris told it how it is.

Like Sklansky said, if there is anyone you should be mad at, it is your employer. From all the reading I have done, it was basically highway robbery at WOSP. Harrahs made a crapload of money off each tournament.

You say you go on the road and deal at "exclusive" tournaments. Why not form a union with other people that do the same and demand you get a higher cut of the withheld money?

Also, if my calculations are correct, the average dealer at WOSP this year made around $1,000(just in tips and excluding any cash games dealt) over the 11 day period of the ME. Not too shabby IMO. I am also willing to bet that feature table dealers got a bit of a bonus for added pressure of being on tv.

Mitch Evans · #**398** 07-22-2007, 01:26 AM

The misleading part the dealer claims is that CF didn't tell Jerry that the dealers only get a percentage of the 1.8%. Again, it's not Chris' place to make this distinction, but I can understand why a dealer would be pissed that Chris said anything at all. I mean, who doesn't like free money?

You say you are going to become a dealer. Well, I'm sure you will run into something like this. Maybe you will deal a bad-beat jackpot and someone will say they should tip 10% to the dealer, and someone else will say, "Nah, that money came out of the money paid by the players... it's already been tipped on. If you want, tip $100, but 10% would be stupid." Something like that would probably piss you off.

I can understand where she's coming from, but at the same time I think they do well for pitching cards. I think Harrah's is raping everybody, though.

pkrporcupine · #**399** 07-22-2007, 01:49 AM

First to mr sklanski, that is a silly question that I feel does not need an answer. What anyone makes in their jobs is relative and if how much I earn angers you, well get over it.
next, I have always said, even in my OP, that Harrahs needs to be giving us a bigger piece of the vig that they take and that there should be a dealer rep on these advisory boards so that everyone involved can put their ideas on the table to make the event better for all.
And for the new dealer....best advice to you is keep it all in perspective. you will have times that you make a ton of cash, then others where you dont make enough to pay the rent. so its hit or miss but what alot of dealers do is they go by those times that they make a huge check so it skews their thinking.
Oh and last but not least, I NEVER CALLED JERRY YANG A STIFF!!

Clancey · #**400** 07-22-2007, 02:01 AM

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You say you are going to become a dealer. Well, I'm sure you will run into something like this. Maybe you will deal a bad-beat jackpot and someone will say they should tip 10% to the dealer, and someone else will say, "Nah, that money came out of the money paid by the players... it's already been tipped on. If you want, tip $100, but 10% would be stupid." Something like that would probably piss you off.

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In all honesty, I am not doing it for the money. I have another job that pays well. The main reason why I want to deal is for more poker experience. I figure dealing would be a great way to help me out with hand reading/pot odd calculations.

I am sure I will get pissed off occasionally at players who are extremely rude, but that will happen with just about any profession you are in. If it isn't a player at your table, it will be a co-worker in the next cubicle or your boss.

I just think it is silly that someone is complaining about making $1000 in tips over a period of 11 days. I bussed tables for 2 years and served for another year. The situation is the same. When you serve, you tip out your bussers at the end of the night(where I worked it was 2%). At no time did I ever feel the need to inform people that I had to tip out my bussers 2% at the end of the night hoping they would tip a little extra.