My Side of the Story

[mephisto]

Ugh. And now the Liz Lieu blog, I have no idea what to believe anymore. I'm just going to give up and just watch the circus from the sidelines.

This thing is outta hand.

[mak15]

i voted hot.

[sweetjazz]

Vanessa,

That was a well-written post and shows that you seem to have a very good grasp on how to handle yourself. I hope that your response will put an end to the rumors circulating about you.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

greatest gimmick account/post ever whoever did this

vanessa if this is really you then plez post a pic of yourself holding a sign that says "yes its really me 2+2"

[blueodum]

It sounds to me like Ms Gluck got her information from her good friend Ms Lieu. I think there was some miscommunication between Liz and Vanessa due to the latter's inexperience, which likely led the more-experienced player (Liz) to interpret the incident as a deliberate slow roll (whereas it was likely unintentional).

And the Deeb hand wasn't all that big a breech of etiquette either - if it is true that Freddy reraised. Normally, the calling player is supposed to wait until the raiser turns over their hand (after which they have the option to muck). Of course if the caller has the nuts, proper etiquette suggests he/she should turn over their hand immediately, allowing the raiser to muck if he/she choses. Vanessa turned over the winning hand before Freddy had a chance to, so I can see why some people might see her asking Freddy to see his hand, as a breech of etiquette. However, it sounds like she did this in a friendly manner, to Freddy directly, and he had no objections (therefore no one else should).

I think there is a HUGE double-standard at work here. Because Vanessa is, apparently, brash and talkative at the table and uses this as a psychological ploy to gain an edge, she's a "bi*ch". But apparently it's okay for dozens of established (male) pros to do the same kinds of things with relatively little effect on their reputation.

And I think calling the clock of Liz was brilliant, something that might be lauded if an established male pro did it. Unless she's constantly calling the clock on people, I don't think it's a serious breech of poker etiquette.

Gavin Smith, on the Circuit, said that Eric Lindgren trash talks and needles opponents at the table. I've never heard anyone criticise Eric for this. But apparently Vanessa isn't allowed to use similar tactics without getting trashed in the poker media.

In a year or so, Vanessa will have the live poker etiquette thing down (or she should). But will she still be saddled with a bad reputation because she isn't all "sweetness" at the table? Likely, yes. Women aren't allowed to be brash and aggressive at the poker table without drawing criticism. The two most successful female tournament players - Annie Duke and Kathy Liebert - draw criticism because of their table talk. What really underlies this is that they are being criticised for acting like most of the other (male) players.

[jimpo]

How come the hot chicks never get along?

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

[ QUOTE ]
I think there is a HUGE double-standard at work here. Because Vanessa is, apparently, brash and talkative at the table and uses this as a psychological ploy to gain an edge, she's a "bi*ch". But apparently it's okay for dozens of established (male) pros to do the same kinds of things with relatively little effect on their reputation.

[/ QUOTE ]

ARGH NO IT ISNT!

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING CRAP LIKE THIS?

every player gets discussed on here. look at the amount of mud slung about online players ZJ, JJ, giga, look at the way people talk about sheiky, matusow, hellmuth, fischman, and lately nguyen. are they women? no.

people discuss everyones personality here with both positive and negative comments if they stand out at the table.

my god. just run a search for hellmuth if you dont believe me.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

[ QUOTE ]
The two most successful female tournament players - Annie Duke and Kathy Liebert - draw criticism because of their table talk

[/ QUOTE ]

and when your done with the hellmuth search run a search for duke and find out why people diss her. i very rarely pay out any player on this board because i dont know them, but others have many, many reasons for paying her out which have no regards to her 'acting like a man'.

its attitudes like yours that are truely destructive to women being accepted in poker because you feel that women cant defend themselves and get off on jumping up and defending them because they are too 'soft' to defend themselves. just let them play. if they screw up pay them out. if they act with class say that too (how much does ev or jennicide get dissed?)

[VanessaRousso]

This is Vanessa Rousso, I don't have a webcam so I am sorry I cannot post a picture of me holding a sign...lol...I am not too familiar with posting in forums such as these, so I wouldn't know how to post a picture regardless. Anyhow, I just intended to make my side of the story known so that people could more objectively evaluate the facts.

[VanessaRousso]

Hey thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Yes, there was an italian soccer player at my table on day three...