Omnipotence Doesn't Imply Seeing The Future. - Page 4

chezlaw · #31 01-10-2006, 10:50 PM

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chezlaw: If you're omnipotent, the only way to make something you cannot unmake is to devoid yourself of that power. Once you do that, you'll no longer be omnipotent

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I'm not sure what you mean by unmake but if you deny god the ability to do things that reduce his omnipotence then you are denying god's omnipotence.

A coherent meaning of omnipotence such as an omnopiotent being can do anything they want but in making p the case they make ~p impossible, avoids the problem I think.

So god can make the world in 7 days but that entails not making it in 8 days. god can flip a random coin but then cant predict the outcome.

and if god really wants to he can commit deicide.

chez

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om·nip·o·tent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-np-tnt)
adj.
Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful. See Usage Note at infinite.

n.
One having unlimited power or authority: the bureaucratic omnipotents.
Omnipotent God. Used with the.

God is supposed to be able to do anything if he is omnipotent.

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Yes thats what I'm saying to. So anyone who says he cant do something (like make a coin flip random)has a problem as well.

The resolution is to make omnipotent coherent or just give up on reason because of a silly mis-interpretaion of the word unlimited.

yukoncpa · #32 01-10-2006, 11:03 PM

I feel sorry for a being that is omnipotent in the sense that he can see his own future. It must be awful to be helpless and shackled to your own immenint destiny.

hashi92 · #33 01-10-2006, 11:12 PM

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I feel sorry for a being that is omnipotent in the sense that he can see his own future. It must be awful to be helpless and shackled to your own immenint destiny.

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yeah he would probally be real bored

soon2bepro · #34 01-11-2006, 02:19 AM

chezlaw: Let me clear it up to you with a common example:

"If God can do anything (is omnipotent), can He create a rock so heavy that He wouldn't be able to lift?"

There are 2 ways He could do this:

1) By creating a heavy rock, then altering his powers so that He would no longer be able to lift that rock.

2) By creating a rock with a weight that is outside of his omnipotence radious.

Number 2) needs an explanation: His omnipotence is only so for everything that already exists, but He can create something else, where His own powers are not enough.

In both examples, he would cease to be omnipotent once He did that. But that doesn't mean that He's not omnipotent now; only if He were to do that.

chezlaw · #35 01-11-2006, 02:30 AM

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chezlaw: Let me clear it up to you with a common example:

"If God can do anything (is omnipotent), can He create a rock so heavy that He wouldn't be able to lift?"

There are 2 ways He could do this:

1) By creating a heavy rock, then altering his powers so that He would no longer be able to lift that rock.

2) By creating a rock with a weight that is outside of his omnipotence radious.

Number 2) needs an explanation: His omnipotence is only so for everything that already exists, but He can create something else, where His own powers are not enough.

In both examples, he would cease to be omnipotent once He did that. But that doesn't mean that He's not omnipotent now; only if He were to do that.

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Are you saying god is omnipotent until he does something that ends it. If so then it follows that he might have already done it.

Its a strange view of omnipotence.

chez

soon2bepro · #36 01-11-2006, 02:48 AM

Well, yes, He might have already done it. But you believe He hasn't. What's the point? If you go that way, "He" might not even exist.

It's the correct view [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Bork · #37 01-11-2006, 02:53 AM

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1) By creating a heavy rock, then altering his powers so that He would no longer be able to lift that rock.

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No, creating a rock then altering your powers is not creating something that you cannot lift. It is creating a rock that you could not lift if you were weaker.

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2) By creating a rock with a weight that is outside of his omnipotence radious.

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No he cannot there is nothing outside an omnipotence radius, it would be infinite.

chezlaw · #38 01-11-2006, 03:10 AM

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Well, yes, He might have already done it. But you believe He hasn't. What's the point? If you go that way, "He" might not even exist.

It's the correct view [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I'm trying to understand what a coherent meaning of omnipotant could be. I'm not sure about you [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

chez

soon2bepro · #39 01-11-2006, 03:19 AM

omnipotence = power over all

that's a good definition

soon2bepro · #40 01-11-2006, 03:27 AM

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No, creating a rock then altering your powers is not creating something that you cannot lift. It is creating a rock that you could not lift if you were weaker.

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We are assuming that minor changes like that don't make an entitiy a different "someone". Technically, every minute that passes, you're a different person, yet you still consider yourself. You wrote that post a while ago, that was YOU. Of course you're different now; just in the same way God could be different after altering his power.

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No he cannot there is nothing outside an omnipotence radius, it would be infinite.

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There is nothing YET (hence the omnipotence). But since He can do anything, He can create something new that IS outside His radious.

Another point: If you also add the belief that God is everything, changing Himself (His powers) and changing reality (creating a rock or whatever) isn't all that different after all [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]... But anyway, the point is that these 2 are the ways in which He could accomplish the task.