Alan Goehring on min raising - do you agree?

[betgo]

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It is not a style suited for neither live nor online play.

Unless you force the table to accept it.

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This miniraising style doesn't give people a big target to attack. You can reraise, but that may be the one time when the miniraiser has a hand. Or he can play back at you with his mediocre hand. He can also call a reraise with a suited connector or whatever and hope to hit something or outplay you.

It is not a style that is easy to play or to pplay against.

[SeriousStudent]

I tried the minraise for 4 100+ buy ins based on Lindgren's book where he advocates the minraise early on, as he likes to play a lot of pots in position to a caller in the blinds.

It also keeps the pots small so you can try to outplay the caller even with an inferior hand without getting hurt too badly if that doesn't work out.

I got a LOT of calls from the blinds, and picked up quite a few chips, but you find yourself having much tougher decisions to make.

I settled on, and am now using a range of 2.5x to 3x the BB as an open raise during the first 4 or 5 levels rather than the 3-5x I used previously. The results are better, but I don't know that I can attribute it to this specific change.

[TheOneWizard]

I've been thinking about this recently as I've been a strong follower of Eric Lindgren's 2BB raise in early position and 3BB raise in late position philosophy.

I've noticed a lot of times in later stages of tournaments my 2BB raise from UTG is folded around. Does anyone think there's a certain "tell" part to this? That is in later stages of a tournament people who are trying to blind steal and don't want a call will raise 5BBs but if they have a powerful hand and want a call they'll miniraise and hope to induce some calls. Thus, your miniraise, to them, looks like you have a powerful hand and are inducing them to call.

Any thoughts on that?

[willie]

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A little while later Peter Costa opened in first position for 600 and everyone folded to Alan in the big blind and he called. The flop came 4h Jc Jh. They both checked. The turn was (4h Jc Jh) 9s. Alan bet 800, about half the pot and Peter called. The river was (4h Jc Jh 9s) 4c. Alan again bet about half the pot, 1500. Peter thought about it for a while and then he folded the AA face up! Alan then turned over KK!!!! Wow, wow. How did he do that? He didn't double Peter up before the flop, and then he managed to beat the AA without improving or risking a lot of chips.

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Wow. File this under Peter Costa's misplayed hands file, not the Alan goehring's a genius file.

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yeah, i thought the same thing

furthermore, way to showboat and fold faceup [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[betgo]

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I've been thinking about this recently as I've been a strong follower of Eric Lindgren's 2BB raise in early position and 3BB raise in late position philosophy.

I've noticed a lot of times in later stages of tournaments my 2BB raise from UTG is folded around. Does anyone think there's a certain "tell" part to this? That is in later stages of a tournament people who are trying to blind steal and don't want a call will raise 5BBs but if they have a powerful hand and want a call they'll miniraise and hope to induce some calls. Thus, your miniraise, to them, looks like you have a powerful hand and are inducing them to call.

Any thoughts on that?

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I know Jesus Ferguson says he makes smaller raises from early position. I think there is some advantage to this as you don't commit a lot of chips with the whole table to act and OOP postflop. Also, you often really have a strong hand, so you want action.

This is similar to the approach of limping in early position with a speculative hand, a marginal high card hand, or a big hand, when you would generally raise with those hands of folded to you on CO.

[DLizzle]

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Preflop raising seems to be very inefficient compared to betting on other streets. When antes are not yet involved, a standard 3xbb raise means you are raising 3xbb to win 1.5xbb. How often do you raise double the pot on the flop, turn or river?

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You're not raising double the pot; you're raising the pot. you put 1 BB in to call, which makes the pot 2.5 Bbs, and raise another 2 which is slightly less than the size of the pot. A minraise is an underbet of the pot.

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say its the 15/30 level. The pot is 45. You bet 90. You're betting 90 into a 45 pot. On the flop, if the pot is 1000, when do you bet 2000? Therefore, its an overbet. Wrong?

[John Ho]

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Preflop raising seems to be very inefficient compared to betting on other streets. When antes are not yet involved, a standard 3xbb raise means you are raising 3xbb to win 1.5xbb. How often do you raise double the pot on the flop, turn or river?

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You're not raising double the pot; you're raising the pot. you put 1 BB in to call, which makes the pot 2.5 Bbs, and raise another 2 which is slightly less than the size of the pot. A minraise is an underbet of the pot.

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say its the 15/30 level. The pot is 45. You bet 90. You're betting 90 into a 45 pot. On the flop, if the pot is 1000, when do you bet 2000? Therefore, its an overbet. Wrong?

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You have to call the big blind preflop. That automatically makes the pot larger. Postflop streets so not start with any bets to call.

[Dan87]

Preflop bets go by terms of Big Blinds, post flop bets are discussed as fractions of the pot. It is correct to "overbet" preflop because aggression works in that particular situation when your opponent only has 2 cards of information rather than 5.

[DLizzle]

I understand these things, I'm just saying if you look at preflop bets like you look at other bets, a preflop bet is not an effecient use of chips in that way to me.

[iMsoLucky0]

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Preflop raising seems to be very inefficient compared to betting on other streets. When antes are not yet involved, a standard 3xbb raise means you are raising 3xbb to win 1.5xbb. How often do you raise double the pot on the flop, turn or river?

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You're not raising double the pot; you're raising the pot. you put 1 BB in to call, which makes the pot 2.5 Bbs, and raise another 2 which is slightly less than the size of the pot. A minraise is an underbet of the pot.

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say its the 15/30 level. The pot is 45. You bet 90. You're betting 90 into a 45 pot. On the flop, if the pot is 1000, when do you bet 2000? Therefore, its an overbet. Wrong?

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Yes, wrong. You are calling the bet of 30 which makes the pot 75, and raising 60 more. This is not overbetting the pot.

Also, even if you minraise, by your thinking you would be betting 60 to win 45, so it's impossible to make an efficient raise preflop by your definition.