Is there anything more ridonkulous than the mid-limits in AC?

[nineinchal]

[ QUOTE ]
[
Hmmmmm I wonder what the win rates of those hands would be vs a steal raise if you just folded them every time? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]




You would lose zero, versus a long term theoretical loss per the tables in the book.



I don't think many have necessarily said its correct to defend with them, but just that its certainly not that far off. Now if we know its a raiser who will play very poorly post flop then surely its gotta be correct.





Do you really want to be up against a poor player when you are holding a 4-3o? I'll tighten up a bit here and cut my losses...

[DrewOnTilt]

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OK all you Einsteins:

From page 105 of Stox "Winning in Tough Hold'em Games" Defending from the Big Blind:
High limit, short handed player (similar results for mid, low and grinder):

43off suit
287 trials
winning %: 1.74%
Amount won/(lost): ($33,979)
Avg $ per hand: ($118.39), that's a loss!
Big bet per hand: (0.50) loser
W%When Seeing the Flop:29.41%
Went to Showdown:35.29%
Won at Show down: 50%

43suited
102 trials
winning %: 15.69%
Amount won/(lost): ($8,529)
Avg $ per hand: ($83.62), that's a loss!
Big bet per hand: (0.45) loser
W%When Seeing the Flop:32.65%
Went to Showdown:16.33%
Won at Show down: 62.5%


If it won 50% at show down that's great. However in this case I believe the BB hit his pair on the flop. However, I interpret this data as; if you call from the big blind defending against a raise, you lose big time, especially if you don't hit your 4-3, suited or unsuited.

Discuss amongst yourselves...Please analyze and explain why this is a profitable call when defending the big blind.

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Do the world a favor and cease living. As in the sports betting thread, you have hijacked a thread and taken it off onto a tangent.

No one said that it is a profitable call. Everyone said that it is marginally -EV. Everyone also said that it is VERY -EV to bet three times with King high into a calling station on an apparently ragged board. People are trying to help you, though I imagine that they will stop doing so given that you have acted like such an ass.

By the way:

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You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.


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Thread. OVER.

[3rdCheckRaise]

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Do the world a favor and cease living. As in the sports betting thread, you have hijacked a thread and taken it off onto a tangent.

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It looks like in every thread he is trying to stretch his 4 inches into 9...As i counted at least 4 winning high limit pros trying to teach one 10-20 regular ( who earned a downpayment on boardwalk condo playing 10-20) on how to play in HU or short situation...I think there an easy way to solve this argumenet...Both Bob and Drew will be playing 80 this weekend , I think i read that Dave is making a trip and i am pretty sure i'll be there too...Al, comeover, sit down, play awhile...

[Torello]

At the Bay101 20-40 a week ago there was a guy on a serious rush who called 3 cold pf with 84o, called 2 cold on a q72r flop, and runnered a 4 and an 8 to crack Kings.

He cashed out 7 racks.

In a totally unrelated tangent, I've been playing a lot of 20-40 there recently.

I might defend occasionally with 34o (player dependent), but I'd probably be planning on C/Ring the turn to take the pot away from you if I didnt hit and didnt think you did. If I hit a 4 there's a very good chance I'm showing it down.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do the world a favor and cease living. As in the sports betting thread, you have hijacked a thread and taken it off onto a tangent.

[/ QUOTE ]
It looks like in every thread he is trying to stretch his 4 inches into 9...As i counted at least 4 winning high limit pros trying to teach one 10-20 regular ( who earned a downpayment on boardwalk condo playing 10-20) on how to play in HU or short situation...I think there an easy way to solve this argumenet...Both Bob and Drew will be playing 80 this weekend , I think i read that Dave is making a trip and i am pretty sure i'll be there too...Al, comeover, sit down, play awhile...

[/ QUOTE ]


[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I really miss the Borg. This post reminds me of the time when Drew (before he became solid, he was still wasn't so great at reading hands back then - times have changed), Action Bob, hot Lorie and me played 5 way 40/80 vs a series of guys who were sitting at the wrong table. Bob got the worst of it out of the four of us IIRC, but time and time again the 5th player was eaten alive. Ahhhhh the gold old days....

[nineinchal]

[ QUOTE ]
[It looks like in every thread he is trying to stretch his 4 inches into 9...As i counted at least 4 winning high limit pros trying to teach one 10-20 regular ( who earned a downpayment on boardwalk condo playing 10-20) on how to play in HU or short situation...I think there an easy way to solve this argumenet...Both Bob and Drew will be playing 80 this weekend , I think i read that Dave is making a trip and i am pretty sure i'll be there too...Al, comeover, sit down, play awhile...

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, I have two inches, I'm Jewish.

Secondly, why would I want to go up against a bunch of sharks like you guys? I'll stay down in a profitable 10/20 game, where I get people who don't know how to play at all, calling my button raises with 4-3o, or worse. After all, I gotta pay my mortgage on my condo, which I won my down payment for in the 10/20 Borgata game.

[nineinchal]

[quote
Do the world a favor and cease living. As in the sports betting thread, you have hijacked a thread and taken it off onto a tangent.



[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, I'll die once I use up all my comp dollars at the Borgata buffet which will be sometime about 2011 if I never play another hand. I am looking forward to eating two bagels and lox a week right up until my demise. Yum!!!

Such hostility over an internet argument! Please remember this; arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics; even if you win you are still retarded.

[Mano]

[ QUOTE ]
OK all you Einsteins:

From page 105 of Stox "Winning in Tough Hold'em Games" Defending from the Big Blind:
High limit, short handed player (similar results for mid, low and grinder):

43off suit
287 trials
winning %: 1.74%
Amount won/(lost): ($33,979)
Avg $ per hand: ($118.39), that's a loss!
Big bet per hand: (0.50) loser
W%When Seeing the Flop:29.41%
Went to Showdown:35.29%
Won at Show down: 50%

43suited
102 trials
winning %: 15.69%
Amount won/(lost): ($8,529)
Avg $ per hand: ($83.62), that's a loss!
Big bet per hand: (0.45) loser
W%When Seeing the Flop:32.65%
Went to Showdown:16.33%
Won at Show down: 62.5%


If it won 50% at show down that's great. However in this case I believe the BB hit his pair on the flop. However, I interpret this data as; if you call from the big blind defending against a raise, you lose big time, especially if you don't hit your 4-3, suited or unsuited.

Discuss amongst yourselves...Please analyze and explain why this is a profitable call when defending the big blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you fold every time what is your average BB/hand? I believe it would be -.5 BB. Are you arguing losing .45 BB/hand is worse than losing .5 BB/hand?

[*TT*]

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If you fold every time what is your average BB/hand? I believe it would be -.5 BB. Are you arguing losing .45 BB/hand is worse than losing .5 BB/hand?

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shhhhhhhh.

[3rdCheckRaise]

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If you fold every time what is your average BB/hand? I believe it would be -.5 BB. Are you arguing losing .45 BB/hand is worse than losing .5 BB/hand?

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shhhhhhhh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shhhhhhh