Religion DOES Do More Good Than Harm

[Phil153]

carlo,

What a horrible view of life. The author needs a good kick in the pants.

There are many things which make life wonderful even for the most spiritual of men. To suggest that life on earth is misery betrays a lack of imagination, a lack of spirit, a lack of courage, and a lack of heart. Perhaps the author is so depressed because he sucks at life, or is so focussed on the magical superplace awaiting him that he doesn't realize or appreciate the gift of life.

Anyway, I would be embarrassed to read or quote that as a Christian, and from a quick google it appears that this is an influential Christian works. Yikes.

[bunny]

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Its a continuum. The less intelligent you are, the less preposterous your specific religion is to you, and the less likely your belief is a symptom of unhappiness that would manifest itself if the religion was taken away from you. More intelligent people who believe these specifics are more likely to suffer if they were forced to admit to themselves that they are ridiculous to be so sure of religious details. (Unless that belief is stopping them from being great scientists or gamblers). Since it is mainly this category of theist that frequent this forum, I don't think I want to try to convince them of the error of their ways anymore.

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I think "the error of their ways" doesnt stem from the belief in God, it stems from the certainty with which that belief is held.

In my opinion, encouraging people to doubt their beliefs without necessarily abandoning them has almost exclusively positive consequences.

[m_the0ry]

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David Sklansky FTW!

Nice post Mempho. I even have a hard time seeing Judas in hell.

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In the Bible, Hell is described in multiple verses as being eternal, everlasting, & for ever & ever.......what is the meaning of those words???

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The same as the meaning of the bible? Which is to say, almost no meaning.

[InTheDark]

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Where I come from about 50% of the populace are atheist, 50% theist and maybe a fifth of them practicing theists - I honestly am not seeing any large lack of happiness.


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Where is this and what would you figure is the current fertility rate in this cohort/country/culture/commune?

[carlo]

Phil,

As background, the book was written for the religious(monks) during the 14th century. As noted in the introduction, this book is seen as the most influential book in Christianity aside from the Bible. He mentions Thomas More, General Gordon(?), Ignatius Loyola, John Wesley, Francis Xavier, and Dr.Johnson as but a few of the thousands who have acknowledged their debt to this "golden work".

It does have an ascetic underlay but still speaks volumes to any and all of those who see suffering in the world. The background of "My kingdom is Not of this World" permeates the book. David hints that there is more suffering in the world than we realize and it is to this that Thomas A Kempis speaks. I find it strengthening to no end and I do not commiserate on the woes of others and myself.

Christianity is not about "happiness" in this life but fatalism is also not present. In the Christian exegesis strength, courage and Love is sought in our working the earth and seeking Christ. Quite an ennobling work but it is possible to take issue with it.

[Subfallen]

Phil, vhawk -

Just face it: you guys are too smart, too successful, and just generally too good-at-life to understand religion. Let's hope that never changes. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="red">DS</font> -

Yep, most people would maximize net happiness by never being born. But 2400 years and still Sophocles says it best: "Oh, wretched, ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be most expedient for you not to hear? What is the best of all is utterly beyond your reach: not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is---to die soon." (Silenus in Oedipus at Colonus.)

[bunny]

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Your points are fine, but I disagree that most people have religious beliefs to prevent misery. They have them because they're stupid, brainwashed, non committed, or socially conditioned.

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Can you expand on the "non committed" category and how that leads to religious beliefs?

[Brad1970]

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David Sklansky FTW!

Nice post Mempho. I even have a hard time seeing Judas in hell.

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In the Bible, Hell is described in multiple verses as being eternal, everlasting, &amp; for ever &amp; ever.......what is the meaning of those words???

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The same as the meaning of the bible? Which is to say, almost no meaning.

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Wow.....that's so deep...so insightful...how do you do it??

[andyfox]

http://www.newspolls.org/story.php?story_id=53

"An even stronger factor is the power of organized religion --any religion--on a sense of well-being.

"Although their numbers were small, Jewish participants in the poll were the most likely of any group to say they are very happy. Protestants--especially self-identified "born again" evangelicals--also report a high rate of contentment.

"Sixty percent of people who have recently attended worship services at a church, synagogue or mosque say they are very happy, compared to 46 percent of people who have not publicly worshiped and 44 percent who have no religious preferences."

[SNOWBALL]

David,

Most of your posts are either correct, or are incorrect, but show good reasoning. This post shows neither.
Notice, I'm not saying you are wrong, but merely that the style of this OP is very out of character for you.