When a read is not a read.

[adsman]

I seriusly think this thread should be stickied, because this has been pissing me off the last few weeks. The amount of times people post stats as a read, or post a hand with no reads and are asked to provide them and then throw in some stats. I particularly love the times I see things like, "Only been at the table for 5 orbits so no real reads."

This should be a rule. Stats are not reads. They can back up reads but they are not reads into themselves. They are stats. If we ask for stats then give us the numbers. But if we ask for reads give a damn read. If you don't have them then start making them.

end of rant. Off to work. And I'm not rejoicing.

adam.

[bottomset]

def. a post that needed to be bumped

and Ent when did you go green?

[FUJItheFISH]

yeah seriously thats cool. matches the avatar nicely too.

[kiemo]

I prefer my way the best.

I take no notes
I dont use any of the real time add-on software
And most of the time I couldnt tell you how many players are on the table much less if any of the them are kinda passive after a preflop raise when faced with aggression in the late position after losing a big hand before 9pm at night and has a stack size under 10BB.


IMO, at micro limits about the only really good reason to take notes is to develop good habits for later levels. The players at micro level are too abundant and too erractic to get good notes on.

For those that can take good notes though I applaud you.

[The DaveR]

Post this in SS.

[Grunch]

Maybe I was on hiatus, but I didn't see this thread first time through.

I haven't used GT+ or any other HUD in over 6 months. I see no reason to ever go back. But whenever I told someone this, they all told me I was making a -EV decision. Instead of starting up the HUD again, I just stopped telling people that I never use it! I can tell more about an opponent in 5 played hands than GT+ can tell me in 500 observed hands.

I use PT to track my own results and archive my "Presto!"s, not to replace my eyeballs and my brain.

Edit: I should also say that I don't normally play more than 2 tables at once.

[shadow.]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: I should also say that I don't normally play more than 2 tables at once.

[/ QUOTE ]

This edit is key in understanding your "no HUD" game. But I did go without a HUD for a day or two, just to try it out. I took manual notes, but for me the manual notes weren't as good as the stuff I can extrapolate from stats. I'm a good extrapolator (-er?).

[cdxx]

hehe, that would be me. thanks for helping out. i'll be hiding my red face for the next hour, consoling myself with the fact that the "total fish" really did have the flush (but it does not validate my "read").

i only play 1 table 2/4 right now. the most i've played was 4-table .5/1 and 2-table 1/2. also i tried 4-tabling 1/2 6 max one day, but the action was crazy.

as a side note, i used to play a game with myself when i didn't have PT. i'd buy into SnG, and forced myself to lay down the first 10 hands, unless i picked up a premium hand. during those hands, i tried to memorize as much of the action as possible, who won each big pot, what did they go all-in with, how did someone get knocked out. after the 10-15 hands, i'd jump into the action. it worked well, but then i got into cash games and with all the player turnover that was harder to do.

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: I should also say that I don't normally play more than 2 tables at once.

[/ QUOTE ]

This edit is key in understanding your "no HUD" game. But I did go without a HUD for a day or two, just to try it out. I took manual notes, but for me the manual notes weren't as good as the stuff I can extrapolate from stats. I'm a good extrapolator (-er?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that's why I edited my original post. Also, I think that taking good notes actually takes a lot of practice. The trick is knowing what sorts of things are note-worthy, and what are red herrings.

[LoaferGee]

It is also a good idea to do some abbreviating because you're notes are limited to a certain number of characters (I think bison mentions this in his post). It is also speeds up the notetaking process. When I take notes I always set it up with amount of players in as well raised or unraised and relative position. So, an example of this would be:

4-w E-MP R: B 2 PF-r on F w/nil.

This translates to 4-way, early to mid position, raised: Bet to the preflop raiser on the flop with nothing.
It takes a little bit getting used to reading at first, but it becomes pretty helpful once you're accostomed to it.