My Report on shortstacking bots NL500-NL2000

[SirDonald]

I fear ur wrong. They couldnt collude even if they wished because most of them cant play on same tables. By the way, they play 6- 8tables at once and shortstack, so it would be quite hard for them to do it, specially being 5 diferent plp. Still, many plp could be using MSN to speak between them, but its something any friends could be doing and its a very diferent kind of problem noone could never control.

Anyway,I think ur missing the point. A player doenst need to prove he isnt a bot. U havent proved anything aside that we (or they, because i dont really play much since there arent many high stakes tables)play following a system. This is true. They are humans following simple guidelines. Is that cheating? Lately, many players on tables are fooling them around because this post. We dont have much problem with that, we could turn chat off when we wish to, but what about many players complaining to support? What could happen? If Prima get tired of complains, they could "search" for bot activity. They would find the same thing u ve found, people playing using the same system. If they would close the account just based on suspect (and they could) a extremly unfair thing would have happened, and this post would be partially responsable for it.

Luckily for me, i know the responsable for the site in Spain and he knows all the players who are playing and even the system they re using, so i dont think we ll be in trouble . Still, u should be carefull in how u throw ur acussations: U need to prove things before making dangerous affirmations against some people, because it could harm them. Indeed, what im doing here is not needed, because i should not need to prove or defend myself against something that is just a "theory", but, as i said, ur theory could bring problems to me or my friends, so i hope u understand that u need not only to "suspect" because more often than not u will be wrong.

One last thing: We have had some good laughts with the 600 USD "bug". Id like to point one detail: When u re searching for something (bot activity in this instance) ull take the "absurd" explanation that helps your theory instead of the easy one that goes against it. A human mistake is a much easier way of explaining it, but still u will believe its a bug.

PS: We dont play so badly postflop! My pride was hurt for this one too! After all, im a succesful limit player, shortstack should be easy enough :P

[Umilard]

I have a question, if you are players and not bots.. How come you didn't change your "system" when it was pretty obvious the poster was exploiting your system by miniraising you all the time. Surely any good player would pick up on that..

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question, if you are players and not bots.. How come you didn't change your "system" when it was pretty obvious the poster was exploiting your system by miniraising you all the time. Surely any good player would pick up on that..

[/ QUOTE ]
They aren't good players, they are newbies following a very simple system.

Plus they play so many tables it's understandable they might not immediately notice one or two players picking on them.

Let me emphasize I'm not taking a position in this dispute. I'm just saying this line of argument isn't very convincing. The basic parts of a fish are gills, fins, and not learning from experience.

[Zibow]

Hi there! I´m Aprilialions on prima [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I´m one of several people using this fantastic system designed by SirDonald, though I am not one of the 3 that had never seen a poker card in their lives.

SirDonald has a brilliant mind, and major achievements in various games including Magic the Gathering (many PT, GP and World Championship money finishes) and competitive online games such as Warcraft (Spanish national team member). His poker achievements are outstanding and he is known and respected in Spain (http://www.raulmestre.com/). He won the “Poker Late Night Aces – Second Season” which is televised in the UK to give u a live play example. He will also be on Spanish television. Additionally, he will publish a book on winning poker strategy very soon for respected poker room Unibet. Do not be surprised if this story is a well known anecdote in a few years. Cracking NL with this system is another major achievement in his poker career.

He is also extremely generous. He designed this system in order to help friends that had never played poker out of average jobs. So WE could make money. He hardly uses it, as he makes a lot more playing high stakes limit, in which he is an über-expert.

As for us, Deilor and I have around 2 years poker experience, while the others are total newbies. It just shows SirDonalds genius as Canichewua and the others had never played poker and are now making very respectable profits in a completely legal and honest manner.

To those who fear collusion, we never play at the same tables. Two shortstackers step on each others toes. Further more, following emails to prima suggesting we were bots, we were no longer able to share tables even if we wanted to. We found that out after joining waiting lists for all tables in a certain limit, being rejected from a certain table, and then realising another one of us was on that table already. This is actually perfect since it completely guarantees you there will never be collusion.

I would like to advise against accusing us of being bots without proof. Unibet has proof we are humans. If Prima were to bring libel charges against Roblin or others for false statements such as “Prima is bot infested”, the consequences could be serious. Who knows the damage that has already been done, even in the Prima chat.


PD: Roblin, we would like to claim the pizza money :P We invite you to meet us at the Barcelona EPT.

[Fermion5]

This is like gold farming in MMOs. =/

[kyleb]

For what it's worth, these posters are likely to be different people based on their IP's.

[Self Made]

Some editorial comments on the bots issue:

It seems that seeing bots has replaced believing online poker is rigged as an indicator of paranoia. I don't deny bots exist, just point out that what people see is a reflection of how their mind works.

Convicting people of botting without the ability to see the evidence (I'm specifically referring to a recent FTP case) is a recipe for false convictions. Remember how WPEX convicted someone of botting, and it turned out he was just using AHK or something? Even in the US legal system, with the right to see evidence and face your accuser, and a nominal "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, false convictions are common. E.g hundreds have been acquitted because of DNA evidence, from the small percentage of where such an acquittal was possible (e.g. still in jail, DNA evidence exists, etc.).

[davmcg]

To all the Spanish respondents in this thread:

Do you know any of the Spanish shortstackers who mysteriously disappeared from Stars PLO games overnight, despite being winners? If so why did they leave?

[Sandokan]

[ QUOTE ]
To all the Spanish respondents in this thread:

Do you know any of the Spanish shortstackers who mysteriously disappeared from Stars PLO games overnight, despite being winners? If so why did they leave?

[/ QUOTE ]

No idea davmcg, I don´t know that history. Cheers, Sandokan.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth, these posters are likely to be different people based on their IP's.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not surprising at all.

Getting IP addresses that seem completely unrelated is a basic requirement for operating a group of bots. Only an imbecile would operate multiple bot-accounts using a single IP address.

I'm sure that when Microgaming investigates they will find each account has its own street address, email, IP address, computer hardware, etc.

In essence what we have here is a bunch of friends sharing a simple but effective poker-playing program. The big unsolved question is whether the "computer" running the program is carbon-based or silicon-based.