non-profit stuff that is better than for-profit stuff

[BCPVP]

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This market looks like it could benefit from a Consumer Reports type of service to educate the consumer about how to get what they really want. I smell a good business opportunity for you...

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The market is benefiting from a "Consumer Reports". And I think that Snowball might be underestimating how much the market has propelled practical martial arts like Muay Thai and BJJ and pulled down some of the charlatans.

[lehighguy]

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Additionally, people value the illusion of safety. Participating in martial arts training provides this. People who want real personal safety take judo, boxing, or glock-fu. All of these have addition drawbacks (in some people's view, in others view they are benefits) that a fluff martial arts class does not have.

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Agree. Maybe these pussies don't want to get hurt sparing. They want a false sense of security because it is less work and pain.

[nietzreznor]

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fair enough, but do you think that people like you account for the extreme differential between 2700 karate schools and 270 BJJ schools?

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No; I think your points have something to do with it as well (the point being, I think, that when people have some desire--like to learn self-defense--but they don't know exactly what constitutes 'good' self-defense, there is at least potential for markets to produce what people believe is good rather than what is good, and hence non-profit provisions as well as consumer reports, etc are good remedies to this deficiency).

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A lot of people will leave stylistic schools when they realize their training leaves something to be desired self-defense wise. My first JKD instructor was one of those people. He got threw his kempo black belt in the trash when he realized that despite all the training he had, he still didn't know how to defend himself.

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I am sure lots of people feel this way. I think when I started, I was mostly concerned with self-defense and sparring; but over time I learned to value the other stuff in martial arts even more than the ability to defend myself. In any case, I can't speak for others, but my training in tae kwon do gives me confidence that I could defend myself reasonably well, should the need arise.

[Copernicus]

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It is quite possible that the world will evolve into democracy, then move to AC, then move onto communal living or whatever.

None of us have a crystal ball.

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we have the crystal ball of history. Your scenario will happen when the universe begins to collapse on itself and broken bottles unfall from the table and re-form

[Bill Haywood]

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Your logic is fundamentally flawed. If the majority of consumers in this market wanted the same thing you want, then the classes offered by the for-profit schools would reflect that.

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Snowball, this guy is defining what is better by what the market provides. There's no answering a tautology.

Example of a superior non-profit product:

Pacifica Radio, Democracy Now, provide more sophisticated,accurate,and unbiased news than commercial stations. It is much more intellectually serious radio. It's the being non-commercial that gives it independence.

Yet another non-profit, NPR, is just the New York Times on radio, 95% subservient to Washington. Go figure.

I've had the same experience as you -- a hobbiest at the Y gave far better instruction in Tae Kwon Do than the commercial place that charged up the wazoo, and then added hidden charges for unnecesarily frequent testing.

Free market dogmatists will say that's what people want, therefore it is right. But it isn't better, as judged from the standpoint of the artform. They are defining desirable results by whether they are from free, not non-commercial markets. Which is the secret behind libertarian sophistry. (but I do really appreciate what Ron Paul is saying about foreign policy. Spot on and courageous.)

[SNOWBALL]

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Pacifica Radio, Democracy Now, provide more sophisticated,accurate,and unbiased news than commercial stations. It is much more intellectually serious radio. It's the being non-commercial that gives it independence.

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I dunno if we're listening to the same station or not, but like half their shows are hosted by fruit juice drinking, sandal wearing nudists with vegetarian leanings, voluminous knowledge of feng shui, and a powerful devotion to the earth spirit Gaia.

They're so quacked out on that station that I simply cannot listen to it. Sure, they occasionally have Noam Chomsky on the air, but other than that, I feel like I'm dodging bullets whenever they report "facts" to me.

The standard of journalism on their news shows is embarassingly low that it absolutely has to be worse than fox news. Partly, it's because they don't have any resources, and partly it's because they're crossed too many lines, and are basically past the point of no return from receiving flack.

It's routine for them to have guests on the air that spout of wild conspiracy theories, or for them to run reports that are verifiably false. An example of this would be that during the invasion of Iraq, they were giving strong consideration to stories about how well the Iraqi military was doing. I mean, COME ON.

One time they ran an interview supposedly by a veteran of the first gulf war who was supposedly part of a special ops team that set fire to the kuwaiti oil fields so that Saddam would look bad. what what what!?

Their coverage of the events leading up the Iraq war was excellent in parts. I used to listen to the morning show with Sonali Kolhotkar (sp?) every day on my drive to school, and then in the evening I'd read through various newspapers and verify the stuff I heard, or do an internet search.

The MSM screwed us so badly before the invasion that I'm surprised that any americans can feel any level of trust for CNN, etc. ever again. Michael Moore was right to call out Wolf Blitzer on the air IMO, but he didn't go far enough. Some of these bastards deserve a lot more than a righteous chiding.

[GoodCallYouWin]

wtf you don't like Democracy Now? I love it, even though every guest is a socialist; I especially liked the Finklestein vs Derschowitz debates, Derschowitz mopped the floor with that fraud.

[pvn]

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Your logic is fundamentally flawed. If the majority of consumers in this market wanted the same thing you want, then the classes offered by the for-profit schools would reflect that.

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Snowball, this guy is defining what is better by what the market provides. There's no answering a tautology.

Example of a superior non-profit product:

Pacifica Radio, Democracy Now, provide more sophisticated,accurate,and unbiased news than commercial stations. It is much more intellectually serious radio.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy is defining what is superior by his subjective personal preferences. There's no answering a tautology.

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Free market dogmatists will say that's what people want, therefore it is right. But it isn't better, as judged from the standpoint of the artform. They are defining desirable results by whether they are from free, not non-commercial markets.

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I'm not sure I get this "free market/non-profit" dichotimy. Nonprofits are PART of a free market, not an alternative to it.

[Brainwalter]

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It is quite possible that the world will evolve into democracy, then move to AC, then move onto communal living or whatever.

None of us have a crystal ball.

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we have the crystal ball of history. Your scenario will happen when the universe begins to collapse on itself and broken bottles unfall from the table and re-form

[/ QUOTE ]

The real Copernicus was much more open-minded.

[SNOWBALL]

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wtf you don't like Democracy Now? I love it, even though every guest is a socialist; I especially liked the Finklestein vs Derschowitz debates, Derschowitz mopped the floor with that fraud.



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Amy Goodman rules, and her show is very well produced, but she's with pacifica, not just specifically with KPFK. Still, I should have mentioned her as a very important exception. I guess I just got carried away by my bitter disappointment over the way KPFK is run.