Plaza will host the largest poker tournament of the year

[CCx]

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He plays, tries his hardest to win

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You're still missing the point - it's poker, you can try your ass off to win but if the cards dont come that day, there's nothing you can do about it. Poker skills are not cut and dry like dunking a basketball or hitting a golf ball 300 yards. There's no element of chance involved with accomplishing those two feats.

[BoBtheBLOGGER]

But here's the difference... in the case of a professional athlete, they are being paid no matter what the outcome. Most high-end pro golfers do not pay to get into tournaments, and they are paid to go to tournaments that they normally wouldn't play in.

At this point in its development, the sport of poker is unique in that everyone (unless they are being backed or sponsored) has to put their cash on the line in any event.

Greg said that he didn't want to play because he didn't feel he would have much of an edge given the buy in and the likelyhood of who would be playing. What I'm learning is that in poker sometimes the best/worst decision you can make is to sit down at a particular table or enter a particular tournament.

He's saying unless the risk is hedged, it is probably not worth playing because:
1) There wouldn't be a lot of dead money so the playing field would not have as many opportunities
2) Variance being what it is, any one tournament doesn't make you or break you in terms of your skill, it is somethign you prove over the course of time/events
3) There are other things in life than poker. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If I missed anything, let me know

BoB

[betgo]

I am sure any of us couold go broke playing in big games to prove how good we are. It seems like Raymer, Moneymaker, and Varkonyi have done a good job of not blowing their prize money.

Raymer was playing in pretty big cash games and tournaments before winning the big one. There have been stories of Varkonyi playing 5/10 stud or 6/12 holdem and of Moneymaker playing 2/5 no limit holdem and $10 online rebuys. They probably know what games they can beat, and winning the WSOP doesn't change it much.

Someone like Stu Ungar with an egotistical undisiplined reckless approach would only play in the biggest games.

[MrMon]

I never suggest Tiger Woods would turn down an opportunity to play in the U.S. Open, the Masters, the British Open, the PGA Championships or the TPC for an opportunity to hustle a CEO. His reputation lies on winning those majors. But lots of pros turn down the lesser Tour events to play elsewhere in even lesser events in return for a guaranteed payout. And you can be damn sure that if Ed's Buick started a tournament, invited all the top pros, but told them, there's a $50,000 entry fee, I get a rake, and you all get to play for the fabulous prize money, you wouldn't get a lot of takers.

The $50,000 Plaza tournament is the Ed's Buick Open of the poker world. No history, it's just another tournament, albeit one with a big entry fee. A big entry fee doesn't mean it's a big tournament. Now, if they had an entry fee of $50,000 plus got AB to toss in another million in sponsorship fees, you might get some action. Ain't gonna happen.

[betgo]

They may not want a huge field like the WSOP ME. They scheduled it for 2 days, so they are not expecting 500 players. The website for this tournament implies it will be likewhat the WSOP used to be. While a lot of pros like Raymer will avoid it, there will be some top players who will want the challenge of playing in maybe the toughest tournament, even if it isn't very EV+. With all the popularity of poker, there will be some unknowns too, although probably not as much dead money as in other major tournaments.

[FrankLu99]

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and his point is that staking your pride on one tournament is so stupid that no skilled poker player would do it.

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[MicroBob]

I think there are some tournaments that Greg is interested in playing in....so he does. And there are others that he is not as interested in playing in....so he doesn't.
But he does acknowledge the possibility that he would be more interested in playing in a tournament he otherwise wasn't that interested in if someone wanted to cover the entry-fee or stake him.

In other words, Greg doesn't just play every tournament that comes along....nor should he.


The fact that the whole thing seems kind of disorganized and is not exactly at the best casino in the world indicates to me that many other top players may take a pass on this one also.

If Greg Raymer says "Meh....doesn't really turn me on." you can be sure that Negreneau, Ivey, Lederer, Ferguson or Greenstein or others may be thinking the same thing.


Negreneau finished 2nd in the PPM III cruise last year. This year he didn't even play in it.
Why?? Because he didn't feel like it.
This isn't exactly rocket-science.

What a silly thread.

[betgo]

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If Greg Raymer says "Meh....doesn't really turn me on." you can be sure that Negreneau, Ivey, Lederer, Ferguson or Greenstein or others may be thinking the same thing.


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No criticism at all meant of Greg for not playing. I think some of the players you mentioned and probably Brunson and Hanson will see the big entry fee and small field as making this more EV+. Some of these and other pros will be ego-driven to attend. I expect there will be a very strong field. It may not attract as many top pros as the WSOP and WPT Champ, but it will have a higher percentage of top pros.

It is possible one reason they are not that interested in promoting it is that they want to keep the field strong, which may not be the best approach.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

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Your lack of competitiveness is astounding.

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As is your lack of understanding.

Winning a poker tournament doesn't prove anything. It only proves that I had the best combination of skill and LUCK that day or week. I judge myself at poker by the quality of the decisions that I make, not the quality of the opposition that I do it against, nor by what I do or do not win in that game.

It sounds to me like you think it is the results that matter. They matter, but only if we're measuring your past income and your current marketability. They do not matter when it comes to your future expectation as a player, nor your skill level. It is the quality of your decisions that will determine your likely future EV, and your current skill level.

I think you just need to grow up, or increase your knowledge base. Maybe you need to reduce your testosterone levels. Something.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Leonardo]

My understanding is certainly not flawed. Results mean nothing?? What a load of garbage. If you play in 1000 tournaments each consisting of 20 players and dont win one, your play is certainly not very good (with confidence level >99%) Results DO matter. Maybe not for one tournament at a time, but over the long run, if you are a better player, you will win more than a bad player. Agreed? So while this one tournament IN ISOLATION may not mean much, neither did the 97 Masters. And yet if tiger took that view every year, that THIS YEAR IN ISOLATION doesnt mean much, and didnt play, how many Green jackets would he have won, Greg? If you consistently view each tournament as a one off, you wont see the big picture. For some reason you think that winning the WSOP means that you know what you are talking about. Its astounding that you dont.
And the idea that poker is completely different from other sports/games with regard to luck is wrong. Lets consider golf. Sometimes a pro can put VERY well all day and consistently shave the hole. Other days he puts well and they go in - luck.