Atheism vs. Antitheism

[samsonite2100]

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FWIW, I'm not a christian and have no problem with anyone else's beliefs insomuch as they are willing to be respectful of mine.

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What kind of fantasy world are you living in where religious people are respectful of each others' beliefs? This is the whole point, since, as misguided as I think most religious folks are, if they were respectful of myself and other people, I wouldn't care what they believed. The same way I don't care if people believe in astrology, since astrology-believers don't seem to feel the need to proselytize or shape the world in their image.


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The responses I've read thus far have pretty much answered my question. It seems the antitheists get fairly annoyed when compared to the fundies in this regard. Thou doth protest too much.

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Right. Or it could just be an annoying comparison. Try this--I'm comparing people who start threads like this to mentally-handicapped people. If you deny it, there must be some truth in it....

[vhawk01]

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP basically labels vocal atheists as "anitheists," and then rhetorically asks how they're different from fundamentalists. Well, besides the fact that we're probably right, I'd say we also differ in that we have no elected officials in Congress and generally don't attempt to impose our will on anyone. I'm curious where you run into these rabid antitheistic types besides on message boards like 2+2.

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FYI - I am the OP.

I'm not trying to lable vocal atheists as antitheists. I see the difference as, "I don't believe in a supreme being" vs. "I don't believe in a supreme being and you shouldn't believe in a supreme being either."

And, I'm not trying to level my comparison outside this forum either. As another poster has said, antitheists don't go door to door.

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We call this a strawman.

[vhawk01]

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If you're christian, then you're antitheistic against Zeus, Thor, Baal, etc. We just go a few steps further than you do.

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FWIW, I'm not a christian and have no problem with anyone else's beliefs insomuch as they are willing to be respectful of mine.

The responses I've read thus far have pretty much answered my question. It seems the antitheists get fairly annoyed when compared to the fundies in this regard. Thou doth protest too much.

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Ooh, and we call this Poisoning the Well. You are on a roll!

[madnak]

I'm against Christianity becaus I think it's a superficial, petty, and deeply malevolent belief system. I'm against organized religion in general to a much milder degree, because I think it encourages conformity and discourages creativity and critical thinking. I have respect for individual religion (which I'd rather distinguish as "spirituality").

[vhawk01]

I just thought of a good analogy that deals with the point in the OP.

I enjoy sports a lot, especially the popular American ones. But I realized when I was about 14 that the ridiculous fanaticism that surrounds, say, NFL football is completely irrational and aburd. These people legitimately believe that their team is the only really great team, the only team worthy of worship (fans) and, regardless of the objective evidence to the contrary (or at least, lack of positive evidence) they persist with this belief for their entire lives. They celebrate the successes and glaze over the failures, except as a chance to lament fortune or demonize the dreaded "rivals." It really, truly has much of the makings of religious belief. They even tend to root for teams solely on the basis of having been born there, and their parents having rooted for same.

But there is a difference. WHO CARES that they do this? Its embarassing, I suppose, but its basically harmless. I might give my dad a hard time when his team loses a big game, but I don't go out of my way to disabuse him of his silly 'faith.' Because it doesn't hurt anyone.

It is ONLY when this type of thing gets out of hand and starts causing suffering that it deserves criticism. People who won't allow children to marry fans of other teams would be an example. Fights breaking out due to fan loyalty would be another. These things probably don't happen often, and definitely far less often than religiously based incidents, but they do happen. And THAT is when people like me (and presumably the rest of the "antitheists" as you call them) feel it IS appropriate to disabuse these people of their silly fanhood.

Btw, this analogy became very legitimate to me today as I was watching a special about the moving of the Baltimore Colts in 1984. It was amazing to me. People were sobbing in their cars, staying home from work, really breaking down, because their team left in the middle of the night. Those who say that people NEED religion and their lives would be so much worse if we convinced them that it was all fake probably have a point. But people NEED football teams then, as well. These people are truly distraught about it. It really is the worst day in their entire lives. Some people can find anything to pour their entire lives into. It doesn't lend much to the credibility of football fanaticism, though.

[kurto]

Love your post. I think its a great analogy. And I have often feared sports fans.

I work in the media and somewhat worked on a documentary on Sports Fans Gone Wild kind of thing. Believe me, it regularly leads to fights and much more violence. I don't think its as bad as in Europe where a soccer goalie who loses a game is in seriously jeopardy of being murdered and riot police are needed to keep fans of opposing teams from killing each other.

The blind devotion is very similar to religion.

I wanted to ramble more on this but I have to fly. Later all.

[Mickey Brausch]

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An antitheist would be someone that believes there is no god and doesn't want anyone else to believe in god either, thus introducing arguement upon arguement trying to convince the theists that they are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]Actually you just made that up.

People who believe that there is most probably no God behind the curtain have no interest of starting an "anti-God" religion of their own -- although to the eyes of the infuriated faithful atheism does look like some kind of hostile religion.

Atheists or agnosticists will often engage the faithful in debates about faith or religion but that's the extent to which they will try to "proselytize". On the other hand, religious fundamentalists are quite intolerant of anyone who deviates from "true faith" or is indeed a non-believer. And they will grasp at every opportunity to legislate or generally impose their beliefs on others.

There is no comparison. It's not even close. Take a cold shower.

Mickey Brausch

[m_the0ry]

Is it ok for me to believe that my afterlife will be utopia if I can make 1,000,000,000 revolutions before I die? Yes.

Is it ok for me to establish a regime and force everyone to spin 1,000 times every day? No.

If I believe I have to make 1,000,000,000 revolutions to make it to Utopia yet I do not let that affect my choice of representatives (as in, my agenda does not consist of making others spin 1,000 times every day) is that okay? Yes.


Important distinctions.

[yukoncpa]

It seems like that atheist fellow who sued to have God dropped from the pledge of allegiance and other’s calling themselves atheists that have pushed to have the ten commandments statues taken away from court houses and manger scenes taken out of public library displays, act like religious zealots. Or is this just the media portraying them that way? What purpose are they ( the atheists ) accomplishing?

[Xhad]

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It seems like that atheist fellow who sued to have God dropped from the pledge of allegiance and other’s calling themselves atheists that have pushed to have the ten commandments statues taken away from court houses and manger scenes taken out of public library displays, act like religious zealots. Or is this just the media portraying them that way? What purpose are they ( the atheists ) accomplishing?

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Mangers and the word "God" in the pledge of allegiance I'm willing to live with, not because I think they're right in principle but because they're not worth bothering. But when we're saying "We don't want lawmakers promoting a list of commandments that start with 'Worship the Judeo-Christian God'," that's hardly religious zealotry.