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#31
12-30-2006, 10:02 PM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
huh?
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#32
12-30-2006, 10:06 PM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty, [/ QUOTE ] I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing! [/ QUOTE ] Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though. [/ QUOTE ] Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die. [/ QUOTE ] Innocent people die in any war, and you have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved because of the war. [/ QUOTE ] You have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved when Saddam had the subversives killed. [/ QUOTE ] Most people Saddam killed were not a threat to anyone other than Saddam, many weren't even a threat to him, his own paranoia led him to kill. [/ QUOTE ] this is interesting as it sounds just like the US and Bush
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#33
12-30-2006, 11:44 PM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
Money to burn said: "people who despise bush believe he lied (about WMD)".
I don't despise Bush, I despise his policies and the war profiteers he represents. Do you understand how I can seperate the two? [b]Isnt it sad how the radio war propagandists have taught these drones to argue in the least productive way possible?
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#34
12-31-2006, 03:10 AM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
Wouldnt Truman have to be hanged to along with most other presidents?
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#36
12-31-2006, 04:07 AM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please. [/ QUOTE ] Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death? You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No. I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty? [/ QUOTE ] Okay- before the invasion of Iraq, I KNEW all the reasons were false. Didn't think, KNEW. At the time I was a 22 year old University student. This was clear to anyone who spent more than 30 min researching. Anyone who says that the Bush administration made an easy mistake is either in denial or very, very dumb. To believe this is an honest mistake is to be a SUCKER.
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#37
12-31-2006, 04:10 AM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] By this logic every president that has entered into a war is guilty, [/ QUOTE ] I agree. I'm not the one advocating hanging Saddam. All I'm saying is don't pretend that your not a massive hypocrite if you think Saddam should be punished but others shouldn't for doing the very same thing! [/ QUOTE ] Bush has not done the same thing as Saddam though. [/ QUOTE ] Actions not words. Knowingly issued orders for an offensive which meant innocent people would die. [/ QUOTE ] Innocent people die in any war, and you have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved because of the war. [/ QUOTE ] You have no way of knowing how many innocent people were saved when Saddam had the subversives killed. [/ QUOTE ] Most people Saddam killed were not a threat to anyone other than Saddam, many weren't even a threat to him, his own paranoia led him to kill. [/ QUOTE ] Lol, this is ironic. Do you see why?
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#38
12-31-2006, 04:14 AM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Require the death penalty? Lets be consistent please. [/ QUOTE ] Do you believe any of America's presidents during WW2 should have been tried and put to death? You could counter, as someone in this thread mentioned, that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. Bush and other proponets for the war gave numerous reasons for invading Iraq, most of which were not lies, but since we did not find WMDs people that did not like Bush jumped all over it and called him a liar. The fact that he lied about the WMDs, in my opinion, is highly debateable. I believe Bush actually thought Saddam either had them or was actively pursuing getting them, people that despise Bush think otherwise. They claim that he knew without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam did not have WMDs and chose to tell the American people that he did anyway. That would hvae been a lie. However a great deal of evidence suggests this is not true. That being said, this goes back to the poker example of getting it all in with AA preflop only to lose to 72o, after someone told you that you will make money if you do that. Are they a liar? No. I got a little off topic there. My answer to you is no. Let's say I am a city planner, we decide that a bridge should be built to make it easier to access two parts of our city from each other. The plan gets accepted and the bridge is built. A short period after the bridge is built, it collapses killing hundreds who were on the bridge and many more who were unlucky enough to be fishing underneath the bridge when it collapsed. Should any of us planners or anyone involved in ordering the builiding of the bridge require the death penalty? [/ QUOTE ] If you took bribes and kickbacks to build a shoddy bridge. Than yes you are guilty of murder. How any American can still support Bush is beyond me. Funny thing is any Republican candidate will have to distance himself from Bush to have a hope [/ QUOTE ] Because then people would have to 1) admit they were wrong, and 2) admit that their instincts led them down this wrong path. Most people are way too afraid to do this, and will fight to protect their delusions to the death.
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#39
12-31-2006, 04:16 AM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
[ QUOTE ]
I think you are kidding yourself if you can honestly say that you would be able to sit in Bush's shoes for a week and make better decisions than he has. [/ QUOTE ] I can honestly say that yes, I would have.
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#40
12-31-2006, 08:16 AM
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Re: Does \"ordering actions which result in the deaths of innocent Iraq
[ QUOTE ]
Okay- before the invasion of Iraq, I KNEW all the reasons were false. Didn't think, KNEW. At the time I was a 22 year old University student. This was clear to anyone who spent more than 30 min researching. Anyone who says that the Bush administration made an easy mistake is either in denial or very, very dumb. To believe this is an honest mistake is to be a SUCKER. [/ QUOTE ] Good on you Johnny, I am quite a fair bit older than you, and honestly I got sucked in by Bush/Blair/Howard arguments. I remember arguing with friends that I could not conceive that a president/prime minister would lie to its constituency in something as serious as a motive for a war. I have had to apologize to all of my friends and acknowledge that, regardless of my age, I got suckered. I thought they, the powers, had information that they could not divulge for security purposes but that they would take a morally responsible stance. I feel absolutely betrayed, like I have never been in my life, by my Prime Minister, the USA president, and the UK Prime Minister. One thing is for sure, is that I will never forget the way I was misled and will surely distrust any government from now on as potentially, and probably, self interested, greedy, miscreants. F* democracy when it can be so misused.
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