Flameout in life and in Poker (VERY LONG)

[Godot]

First of all, why the venom and vitriol Mock? Why do my posts make you so angry. And most disturbingly, why not choose to IGNORE them rather than make a fool of yourself in a public forum?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I will try to respond to each of his criticisms point by point...Although some don't appear to need any rebuttal at all. He seems to be in his own world on some of these... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]


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Your posts are EXTREMELY alarming. You sound completely out of control. You remind me of a coke addict in the middle of a major binge.

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Your response to my post is EXTREMELY alarming. You remind me of petty shallow man who has nothing better to do than to try attack someone who is has admitted he has a problem. Did the title of the thread give you a clue? Unless you understand “flameout” as somehow worthy of boasting? I think you missed the ENTIRE point of my posts. I don’t mind criticism, but if you are going to criticize at least read the damn post!

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You are not thinking clearly. You definitely are not making sound decisions.

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And the award goes to Captain Obvious!


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Get out of Vegas. Go home. Give whats left of your money (if there's anything left) to someone you can trust to keep it for you, i.e., your mother. Get to a GA meeting. Call your boss.


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You do realize that this is not a day by day account of my life. Rather I am retelling some of the events that have brought me where I am today (for better or for worse) and that you are asking me to go back in time and change events that have already happened? This is a poker site, right? Didn’t the fact that I stated the WSOP main event was scheduled for the following Thursday buy you a ticket onto the clue train? You do realize that the WSOP happened over two months ago, right? Maybe that was too subtle… how about “Im in Vegas in JUNE during the WSOP” and “I couldn’t possibly be back to work before JULY 16” or is that too complicated for you to realize that June and July occurred nearly two months ago. But of course my last two points are significant if you actually read my post before criticizing me, or, in the alternative, you are a grade A moron. Either way, it doesn’t look too good for you buddy.

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I dont think you will take any of the above suggestions. You sound so coked out, so crazy. You sound much younger than mid thirties - no offense. I think that emotional immaturity usually accompanies addictions of all kinds - although it is not the whole story. I dont know what to say to you that would be of any help.


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You sound much older, perhaps mid 60s – no offense. I think emotional insecurity usually accompanies loneliness and bitterness of all kinds – although it is not the whole story (sometimes being middle aged and working fast food accounts for a lot). I don’t know what to say to you that would be of any help, except invest in a remedial reading program. Or stop taking drugs, I don’t know.

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I can imagine a nightmare post from you in 6 weeks saying that you were fired from your job, you are broke, you borrowed all the money you could get your hands on and lost it all, and Allison left when the money did (surprise surprise).


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Well I suppose if you would follow the thread you might realize that you might not have to wait 6 weeks for a follow up post. Maybe you are incapable of realizing that I had posted and re-posted in the span of 24 hours. I know those damn date stamps can be tricky to figure out.


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You have major life problems to deal with. I hope you will get to GA and get started before you do irreperable damage to your life and career.


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Once again, Captain Obvious. I do not deny this, but then you would have to ACTUALLY read my post to discern that.

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Good Luck to you

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Thank you. I hope your career in fast food goes well also. I hope you are not in a position where you actually have to read or follow orders...if that is the case may God have mercy on us. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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He still sounds crazy and immature. And if he's still gambling I think he's in for serious trouble.

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Ok, I’ll just abbreviate C.O. I hope you can figure out what that stands for. Hint: I called you that TWICE already. Wait, you might have skipped that sentence, or maybe your reading skills aren’t up to snuff. Ok yes I was crazy…maybe I still am a little bit. At least I am seeking treatment and understand that I can get out of control.

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I don't enjoy reading about people describing out of control insane behavior with a boasting undercurrent like there is anything at all to be proud of in his actions.


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I don’t know how to respond to this incredulous statement. I find it hard to believe that someone who’s reading comprehension skills that barely rival a chimp could detect something so subtle. (I was being facetious here, I realize that chimps all over the word are taking offense right now…)(Ok I was being doubly facetious there, but I suppose I have to spell everything out for you)


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It screams major denial. Just like his justifications of Allison's behavior screems denial. Denial of who he is, denial of who Allison is, denial of the nature of the relationship, denial of his lack of control over himself and his gambling habits, and I think it's safe to guess - denial of other major issues in his life.


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“Knowing these things I can understand her obsession with status and class. I’m not EXCUSING it, but I do understand it” my quote. Once again is he not reading my posts? I wonder if he watches trailers from movies and feels qualified to write a movie critique based upon watching a 30 second teaser trailer? I don’t know where you got your dictionary, but in mine excusing and justifying are synonyms. I suppose when someone explains a certain behavior they are automatically JUSTIFYING said behavior. Another thing, why is he reading my posts, or not reading my posts (seems more likely) and yet taking time out to respond, if it makes him soooo angry? As far as the denial, I believe this is covered earlier. But let me reiterate…if I was in denial over control of myself and my gambling habits, would I be in treatment right now? Huh??? I suppose you are able to glean the nature of my relationship with Allison by what I WROTE?? I suppose when I was writing about MY relationship, I was in denial and there was an unknown force guiding my hands to my keyboard, because, obviously, since you gleaned everything you know about MY relationship from what I WROTE….i suppose you know better than me. Sigh….


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I don't like his writing style - it seems surprisingly illiterate for someone who considers himself such an academic whiz kid. (Overestimation of his own abilities and accomplishments - more denial but mixed with narcissism this time.)


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The irony is delicious. He calls my writing style illiterate, yet he appears to have absolutely no reading comprehension ability. It’s as if has read every third sentence and decided to use that as a basis to make baseless arguments that are completely contradictory to the truth. Also, let me quote myself again… I tend to write in a stream of consciousness fashion and I often don’t stop to correct my grammar except to insert paragraph breaks for readability so I apologize in advance if I my writing is murky at times and I will be more than happy to clear up any misunderstandings.”


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(Overestimation of his own abilities and accomplishments - more denial but mixed with narcissism this time.)


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“Somehow, I managed to maintain a 3.8 GPA in college” I don’t find that an overestimation at all. I find that an objective statement of my grades in college. Overestimation implies a subjective judgment.

Ok a few sentences down...“Going to law school, well suddenly I was average among my peers.” When I do make a subjective judgment on my academic prowess, I actually call myself average. How is this overestimation?????

Irony but mixed in with envy this time??

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I would not normally be so critical of this type of behavior. I's just that there seems to be an element of pride and boasting throughout his posts that I find offensive considering what he's describing.


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See above for chimp comment. But I suppose he had to write it again. Maybe he forgot he wrote it the first time? It’s very possible when he proofread it he simply didn’t read it and decided to make sure it got in? But I’ll say it again in case you missed it the first time…I find it laughable that you would be able to detect any undercurrent of pride or boasting considering that you can’t even distinguish between a recollection and contemporaneous writing. I don’t think my writing was unsubtle (that was a double negative, so it means I wasn’t being subtle in my original posts)

One more thing, how do you play poker if you are so unobservant????

Unfortunately, I will be gone for a few days and wont be able to respond back immediately. But I am dying to see his response…. [ QUOTE ]


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[tek]

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This will be for some a long boring excursion into one degenerate gambler’s demise that I’m sure you’ve read countless times.

I’m not writing this for purely selfless reasons (i.e. to warn others of the dangers of gambling or whatnot, although that does play a part), I’m mainly writing this for cathartic and self-therapeutic reasons (as suggested by a therapist). Sometimes it is easier to be honest to a group of strangers in an anonymous forum than it is to be honest with yourself.

I know I will get flamed for this post. I just hope that my story well get through to someone in similar circumstances and maybe reveal the dark underbelly of poker.

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Some of you guys are beating a dead horse instead of offering constructive criticism, which is probably because you see elements of you in his story and are engaging in 'reaction formation'.

As far as Godot, you are deviating from your strategy of catharthis and getting wrapped up in ego-based arguments with people that you knew would flame you. This is the same thing that got you in trouble in poker--trying to "get even" with someone specific instead of playing each player objectively.

Part of it may be your law training. Both of my brothers are lawyers, and my son is in law school. One brother has to be right always. The one I spoke about in my previous post doesn't. He' the one that is in solo practice and goes skiing or whatever whenever he want to. But as far as the law training goes, you are playing poker with that training. You won't always be right and you can't file appeals for a bad beat. Revenge is a sure path to a blazing defeat on a macro level.

This is perhaps a reason why you will have trouble gambling on a long-term basis, unless you can bring objectivity into your game.

[Godot]

Tek I respect your opinion and criticism, despite the fact that I might not agree with all of them. Even on our disagreements what you say is not without merit and you are able to back up your assertions with credible arguments. You do not, under the guise of criticisms, make thinly veiled ad hominem attacks when they are completely unncessary. I respect that and I respect your difference in opinion on certain matters. However, any debates would almost not be worth it, since there is only marginal daylight between our positions.

You are completely correct about my "ego-based arguments," I felt like I was under personal attack and I lashed out. I think that if I were to calmly reasses the situation I would realize that some points are so obvious that it is futile to argue them, and by engaging in such "ego-based arguments" I am lowering myself to my opponenet. However, I am a man. And as a man I don't take kindly to completely unwarranted and baseless attacks to my person. Yes I was rash, and I understand than some of the anger directed at Mock may be misdirected anger that has simmered in my subconscious at another target. I understand that, and I am working on that. I suppose an apt real world analogy would be if a person spit on you on the street based on completely erroneous prejudices that they hold. That is how I felt. I ignored his first post, as it seemed that Axe set him straight. Yet when he posted his ignorance again, it was too much for me to take. I can accept one mistake, but if you are shown that you are incorrect and continue to engage in said behavior at my expense I will not and can not be expected to like it.

In person, I am the most affable and even keel person you will meet...outside of gambling. This is due to the fact that I am rarely insulted or have personal attacks directed at me, as I am generally well respected among my peers. However, in an anonymous forum, there will be haters that will take potshots at you for no other reason than to appease their egos.

I know you may argue that I am continuing in the behavior that I have just condemened, but right now I am a bit wound up and it is hard to think rationally and constructively due to pressures beyond this forum. I suppose if I had a cooling off period and wrote this when I came back, my response would not seem so vituperative. But I felt compelled to act decisively. Even now, I regret saying many of the things I wrote, but I have to stand by them for better or for worse. These real life "tilt" issues are some things I am working through therapy right now. Oftentimes, the target of my wrath recieves more aggression than is perhaps deserved due to factors that transcend the immediate incident.

I know I am rambling, but I have been up for a long time contemplating my relationship and engaging in self introspection so I am not able to make the most compelling nor coherent arguments. You see, I am in Arizona right now (my home state, another long story why I am here...maybe I'll post why soon) and I will be traveling back east to see Allison. I don't know what the future holds for us right now, but it is an incredibly stressful time for me and that may contribute to some of my erratic behavior lately. I hope you understand and I always appreciate your feedback, even if I disagree.

Take care

Maybe I'll check in when I'm on the East coast. Hopefully people are still interested in hearing my story.

Still Waiting for Godot (did you check it out? If you read French, read it in the original French...the translation loses some of that je ne sais quoi.)

[Blankstare]

BS story written to satisfy what all liars inherently need... attention.

But hey if it makes you feel good lying to a bunch of strangers just for the yak of it go right ahead this is a free country. Some of the people around here actually enjoy your yarn spinning.

I just wanted you to know after reading through your "story" the elements, the treatment, the composition just seem contrived. This is not to say someone couldn't have lived this, but the way you tell it, I don't think you lived it.

Look I have no reason to believe you or disbelieve you, it doesn't gain me anything, but I do want to point out the obviousness of your ploy mostly because it satisfies me to finger liars and call them on it. Maybe that is why I like poker so much hehe.

My BS detector definately went off, and I have a feeling some other people got the same reading.

Have fun! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Godot]

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You have no shot at being a winning gambler.EVER. Your blackjack parlaying nonsense proved that. You can't beat a negative expectation game by making higher negative expectation bets. I only gamble to win money and not for the action and all of that other [censored] casinos try to sell you.

I do not know your financial status. Maybe you can piss away a few hundred grand a year but it seems stupid to me. Try and look at this from the outside and ask what if anything you have gainded from gambling. Now look at what its cost you.I can't go to the store and buy things with action, they usually want money.
In my opinion your girfriend seems like a gold digging [censored]. However if I were her Id rather you spend the money on me than at a fucken card game, so its not totally her fault. Youre a degenerate so shes gonna be there during the good times when money is rolling in and she'll be gone when youre living in a box. I hope she atleast gives good head because she seems pretty worthless otherwise.
Don't play drunk. Plain and simple a bad move.
Don't play sober if you have any value for money. If being piss broke with nothing to show for it play as much as you can. It's your life, you can make your own desisions. Id prefer you not throw it away but thats up to you. I don't buy this garbage that this is a disease. Everything you do has consequnces, I just down think losing all your money gambling is something you should be doing.

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I appreciate you making qualitative judgments on whether I have a shot a being a winning gambler EVER. However, I don’t think that was the reason for my post. I am not here trying to prove that I am or was or ever could be a winning gambler. I think you are missing the big picture here. I only wrote what I wrote to get across a message which I think you completely overlooked. Gambling is not the cause of my problems, merely the most obvious symptom. It would be like treating a gunshot wound with a bandage. Sure it will stop the bleeding, temporarily, but it’s not going to cure you of the bullet lodged in your body. I need to remove that bullet.

The relationship that Allison and I have is far too complex to be fully explained on a poker forum. However, I did post earlier about some of the dynamics of our relationship that I hope made her less one dimensional. I think you may have not read it. Or maybe you read it and had already made your mind up about her and nothing further I wrote would dissuade you from your original impression. First impressions are so important.

I don’t feel the need to justify a relationship with someone to a poker forum. I feel that that is probably beyond the scope of what this forum is about. Whether or not we stay together is ancillary to some other deep seated issues being worked out. I’m sure you will have your opinion, and I am not arrogant enough to believe I can change that nor am I terribly inclined to persuade you one way or the other when it comes to her. What I can do is simply present the facts through my lens and you can take that for what it’s worth. I am not her agent nor her promoter, she just happens to be an integral part of my life and the peanut gallery is not going to influence nor define my relationship with her. That is a decision I must make myself.

As for as gambling as a disease, I think I stated pretty clearly that I don’t believe that it is the root cause of my problems, but rather indicative of some deep seated psychic trauma. I have not thought gambling was something beneficial to my life in over a decade, even when I was winning. I have no illusions as to the damage gambling can wreak personally and professionally. I was there. Therefore, while your well meaning albeit misguided attempts to dissuade me from further gambling is hollow, I appreciate the sentiment.

Waiting for Godot

[Godot]

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BS story written to satisfy what all liars inherently need... attention.

But hey if it makes you feel good lying to a bunch of strangers just for the yak of it go right ahead this is a free country. Some of the people around here actually enjoy your yarn spinning.

I just wanted you to know after reading through your "story" the elements, the treatment, the composition just seem contrived. This is not to say someone couldn't have lived this, but the way you tell it, I don't think you lived it.

Look I have no reason to believe you or disbelieve you, it doesn't gain me anything, but I do want to point out the obviousness of your ploy mostly because it satisfies me to finger liars and call them on it. Maybe that is why I like poker so much hehe.

My BS detector definately went off, and I have a feeling some other people got the same reading.

Have fun! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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That is an interesting. I am glad there are defenders of truth out there protecting unwary victims of a lying poster. I am so impressed that you taken it upon yourself to be the champion and the savior of the mislead.

I suppose I could respond to your unbelievably articulate and cogent argument why I am lying. But I can’t. Seems as though you have nothing concrete other than your “BS detector” going off. How can I argue that the composition and treatment seem contrived? Do you actually believe what you just said? Did you really think about what you were writing when you wrote this. That is about the most obtuse and non-specific reasons I’ve ever heard. Exactly what does how “the way you tell it, I don't think you lived it" mean. WTF kind of argument is that? I am so glad you are providing specific examples that don’t add up instead of vague specious arguments that basically say nothing. Otherwise, how would I defend myself against your magnificent wit and overwhelming mental superiority?

“Look I have no reason to believe you or disbelieve you, it doesn't gain me anything.” Of course it does, it gives you that feeling of overblown self-importance since you deem yourself to be the protector of the naïve huddled masses of the internet. Perhaps if your fragile ego wasn’t so bruised you wouldn’t feel the need to embolden yourself by putting others down. I pity you. Perhaps you were unloved and feel that you must show your worth any way how. Yet you only throw out vague accusations without anything to back them up.

“I do want to point out the obviousness of your ploy mostly because it satisfies me to finger liars and call them on it.” Yes you must be satisfied, making anonymous and baseless accusations against someone because you have a “feeling” and then slinking under a rock where you belong. You would like to point it out because it’s so obvious, but you won’t because it satisifies you to finger liars. So you are satisfied simply by making your ridiculous accusations with absolutely no empirical evidence. Why doesn’t the FBI hire you as their top man, since you can “fingering liars” based upon a gut feeling. Wow, your logic is astounding!

I think you are a 33 year old loser with no friends and lives in his mother’s basement, because I have a feeling. I have a “gift” for fingering losers like you. It gives me great satisfaction pointing that out, that I am a much better person than you are. Now, disprove that. And disprove that you are a virgin, because I have a feeling about that also.

Perhaps you can come back with specific examples why you think I am lying. Similar to how I demolished your pathetic excuse for an argument. I will be awaiting your response when I come back on Tuesday.

Waiting for Godot

BTW you would've made a great witness during the Salem Witch hunt.

[warlock]

it really does reek of trolldem doesn't it.

[Blankstare]

Your reaction to my post is exactly what I predicted it would be and is all the proof I need. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But I can't take too much credit, it was your reply to Mockingbird's post that really tipped me off.

I'm glad you took the time to respond to my post, but I knew you would. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I'll end my post with a quote from a man much smarter and much wiser then me,

"It's not always possible to catch liars by listening to what they have say, but you can almost certainly catch liars by watching how they react."

Have fun! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[steaknshake925]

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My BS detector definately went off, and I have a feeling some other people got the same reading.

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yea me too. the original story was pretty good though.

[bohemian]

Hello Godot:

if you indeed intend to have a therapeutic experience, I suggest you consider but do not reply to posts that offend you. It is not merely a waste of time, but positively damaging to your state of mind.

Just some thoughts:
1) About Allison - I'll be blunt: do yourself a favor and don't think with your dick. Been there, done that. Not good for you. Having read your description of her (both good and bad), I do not see how she is the right person for you. Sounds like a shallow person. I think you're deeper than that. If you stick with her, you will truly regret that one day. Those looks will go and you will be stuck with a bitch.
2) Gambling - forget it.
3) Your mental state - you are a clever guy, but unfortunately intelligence does not correlate with happinness and true success in life. You need to get some fresh thoughts. New thoughts create new life. I suggest the following for starters: Wayne Dyer, "Your Erroneous Zones" (Not "Errogenous Zones", the book is about soft spots in your head, not hot spots on your body lol).
4) and lastly.... take life with a grain of salt. You take yourself way too seriously. Your ego will only keep you trapped in the world of conflict, pain, and deep unhappiness. You're on the way to learning that. Expensive but necessary lessons.

All the best man.

Bohemian