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#31
12-15-2006, 12:36 PM
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Re: just shoot me now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] so the bb defends more, and the sb 3bets more. now we want to raise more hands into these guys? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, because we need to play enough hands to not get run over and I'd rather play them on the button than in the blinds. Do you disagree? I don't think you guys understand what I said or I said it poorly. We need to find hands to play somewhere, would you rather be in position or out of position? If the answer is you will defend your blinds a whole lot more and play tight on the button, fine, but please explain that argument to me because I just don't understand it. -DeathDonkey [/ QUOTE ] But you need to look at your button hands in a vacuum. You can't say, "well I need to find someplace to play hands in the 3 handed game so it might as well be the button." All that matters is the profitability of certain hands when you open on the button with them. I with others who think that the range should be tighter if anything because players tend to play way too many hands out of the blinds 3 handed. Exploiting that weakness means playing a stronger set of hands. 
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#33
12-15-2006, 04:12 PM
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Re: just shoot me now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] so the bb defends more, and the sb 3bets more. now we want to raise more hands into these guys? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, because we need to play enough hands to not get run over and I'd rather play them on the button than in the blinds. Do you disagree? I don't think you guys understand what I said or I said it poorly. We need to find hands to play somewhere, would you rather be in position or out of position? If the answer is you will defend your blinds a whole lot more and play tight on the button, fine, but please explain that argument to me because I just don't understand it. -DeathDonkey [/ QUOTE ] But you need to look at your button hands in a vacuum. You can't say, "well I need to find someplace to play hands in the 3 handed game so it might as well be the button." All that matters is the profitability of certain hands when you open on the button with them. I with others who think that the range should be tighter if anything because players tend to play way too many hands out of the blinds 3 handed. Exploiting that weakness means playing a stronger set of hands. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. Surf
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#34
12-15-2006, 06:24 PM
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Re: just shoot me now
[ QUOTE ]
this is my argument. if a hand is -ev on the button 6handed, i cant figure out how it all of a sudden becomes profitable if we are 3handed. [/ QUOTE ] People are defending with a wider range 3 handed.
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#36
12-15-2006, 07:07 PM
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Re: just shoot me now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] this is my argument. if a hand is -ev on the button 6handed, i cant figure out how it all of a sudden becomes profitable if we are 3handed. [/ QUOTE ] People are defending with a wider range 3 handed. [/ QUOTE ] yeah so you don't want to play the -EV hands because they'll actually be more -EV 3-handed since you won't even succeed in stealing as much as you would at a 6-handed table...
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#38
12-15-2006, 08:25 PM
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Re: just shoot me now
[ QUOTE ]
now you screwed up my fundementals, are you saying you wont be playing more hands the fewer players it gets ? ! [/ QUOTE ] i am saying i wouldn't play more hands on the button 3-handed than i would in a 6-handed game when the first 3 players have folded to me. this is obviously not the same as saying my vpip would be lower playing 3-handed than playing 6-handed.
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#39
12-15-2006, 09:09 PM
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Re: just shoot me now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] this is my argument. if a hand is -ev on the button 6handed, i cant figure out how it all of a sudden becomes profitable if we are 3handed. [/ QUOTE ] People are defending with a wider range 3 handed. [/ QUOTE ] yeah so you don't want to play the -EV hands because they'll actually be more -EV 3-handed since you won't even succeed in stealing as much as you would at a 6-handed table... [/ QUOTE ] I don't think that this is necessarily the case. Because someone doensnt fold his bb to a threehanded button steal doesnt mean that he won't make all manner of positional based mistakes postflop. We don't know our villain here, but we do understand the situation, and the situation is this:we are threehanded an in position. I'm with DD on this one - each orbit costs 1.5 sb, and each orbit lasts three hands. Therefore each hand costs .5 sb to play. This is a major major difference from a full ring scenario where each hand costs .15 sb to play. Given the price per hand, we're better off maximizing the postflop time we spend in position as opposed to out of it. Also, successful blind and flop cont steals from the button can buy us some tightness in the bb and sb. If we pass on too many orphaned pots from in position we're going to be forced to put most of our money in from the bb, which is the losingest position at the table. I'm not saying that I raise every button in a threehanded game. I am saying that I'll raise up Q6s every time until I get a postflop read. this strategy is only really exploitable if a blind player manages to cause me to fold the best hand too much, which is why we should gravitate towards high-card type hands from the button in this scenario.
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#40
12-15-2006, 09:30 PM
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Re: just shoot me now
how do marginal blind steal hands make money?
1. both blinds fold 2. one blind calls and check folds the flop once you get to having to fire flop and turn bets with anything, you start to get into pretty neutral territory imo. how do marginal blind steal hands lose money? 1. when they get 3-bet preflop and are forced to call. 2. when players are willing to play back postflop w/o a hand. the first two things happen less often playing 3-handed - the last two happen much more often. remember, my argument is simply that you should not play more aggressively OTB 3-handed than you would in a 6-handed game when everyone folds to you. i still don't see how you can say that the very very marginal hands can fare as well against players who will almost certainly defend their blinds more vigorously. i believe that the adjustments the blinds make will eat into the hands that are otherwise very slightly +EV at a 6-handed table.
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