I set a new record at my B&M (Wrong Forum?)

[steamboatin]

I do not maintain a seperate bankroll, I have Statking and track my results religiously. I can tell you exactly how how many hours I have played at each level or location and I know exactly how much I am up or down at any given moment.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not maintain a seperate bankroll, I have Statking and track my results religiously. I can tell you exactly how how many hours I have played at each level or location and I know exactly how much I am up or down at any given moment.

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I'm happy to hear that you are tracking your results, as you can see from my previous post I wasn't so sure about that. But now lets discuss your bankroll. What level(s) are you currently playing? How many bets do you keep in your bankroll? Do you ever play poker from financial sources other than your bankroll? Is your bankroll kept in cash (I know you are a live player) or in a bank? If its in a bank, do you keep it in a separate bank account?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[MicroBob]

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if someone posts about one losing session, he is a donkey and sucks at poker.

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just posting that you had a losing session is not drawing any criticism at all.
In fact, many on here are stating that they have much worse downswings on a regular basis.

Some of the details you provided such as playing down to the felt with only 25 BB's are raising some eyebrows though because of how it is generally considered to be incorrect.


In fact, I've observed just the opposite of you.

Somebody, a new poster perhaps, comes on here and posts that they dropped 100BB's or something and they immediately get told that there's a lot of variance in poker and they should just 'hang in there'.
But most seem to offer such variance advice while just assuming that he is actually a good player which is a pretty strange thing to do imo.

If he's a new poster who we know nothing about, and we already know that most players do NOT win, then why would we assume he plays a winning game?

Sometimes a couple more predicatable details of how they play come to light and it THEN becomes obvious that the downswings are happening because he simply isn't good at poker.
But I'm always amazed at how much 2+2'ers just assume that he is a winning player just because he says he is. Most players say this about themselves. It means very little.

[*TT*]

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Most players say this about themselves. It means very little.

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Good point MB. In Steam's case we have over a years worth of experience with him to base on non-judgmental advice upon.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[MrBrightside]

I have had a separate bank account for years for poker, and it has avoided much conflict. My wife knows I'm serious about poker, I keep records, etc.

I have bought "gifts" though from my poker roll after a big withdraw. One nite I tried to talk the wife into going out with the kids for dinner (we don't eat out much) and she said "we don't really have a lot of money, we're savign for our vacation" and I just went to my shoe (where I keep my live play bankroll short term, grabbed a hundred and said "let's go, it's on my poker winnings"

[steamboatin]

I think I understand now and if I don't someone will jump in and let me know.

When I am concerned about maximizing my income, I don't play poker, I grab a suit out of the closest, pick up the phone and start dialing for dollars. The decision to go play poker is -EV from a purely income perspective. The greatest player in the world only makes 1-1.5 BB per hour so I agree to a pay cut when I decide to go play.

I am not a great player. I am a break even player at best. The +EV play is to stay home and sell a couple more houses. The problem is, if you don't have a hobby or a diversion you get burned out, so as long as poker is less expensive than owning a boat or having a golf addiction, then I am fine.

I believe this is why we always seem to be in disagreement because I have a different agenda. I don't view poker as a source of income. I enjoy playing, I enjoy studying poker and I enjoy the challenge of working on my game. If I had to chose between playing in a game that wasn't any fun where I had a small positive expectation or a game that was a lot of fun but I had a small minus expectation, I am choosing the fun game everytime.

[MrBrightside]

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If I had to chose between playing in a game that wasn't any fun where I had a small positive expectation or a game that was a lot of fun but I had a small minus expectation, I am choosing the fun game everytime.

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You my friend, need to learn to play craps. The funnest -EV game in the world. If you stay away from the bad bets, it's only slightly -EV.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I understand now and if I don't someone will jump in and let me know.

When I am concerned about maximizing my income, I don't play poker, I grab a suit out of the closest, pick up the phone and start dialing for dollars. The decision to go play poker is -EV from a purely income perspective. The greatest player in the world only makes 1-1.5 BB per hour so I agree to a pay cut when I decide to go play.

I am not a great player. I am a break even player at best. The +EV play is to stay home and sell a couple more houses. The problem is, if you don't have a hobby or a diversion you get burned out, so as long as poker is less expensive than owning a boat or having a golf addiction, then I am fine.

I believe this is why we always seem to be in disagreement because I have a different agenda. I don't view poker as a source of income. I enjoy playing, I enjoy studying poker and I enjoy the challenge of working on my game. If I had to chose between playing in a game that wasn't any fun where I had a small positive expectation or a game that was a lot of fun but I had a small minus expectation, I am choosing the fun game everytime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Steam - I am a publisher by trade, and I am not a kid like many of your fellow 2+2'ers (I'm nearing 40). Poker is not a significant source of income for me either. I am a part time player, a recreational player like you are. But the difference is I think like a winner, while your thought process is how losers think and we are trying to help you break that pattern. I know its a Borg hive-like mentality, but it allows those of us that practice this thought process to be long term winners, not worry when losses occur, and feel positive that we will never have to dip into our personal savings to play a game that we all love to play.

Have you ever heard of Roy Cooke? He is a columnist for Card Player, and a very successful real estate broker in Las Vegas. He only plays 1-2 nights a week at most, yet he is one of the best players in the 40/80 game you will ever come across. Roy could become a pro, but he choses to work for a living because he makes significantly more money that way (I hope you are in the same boat!). I suggest reading his book so you can learn more about Roy, you can get it at Conjelco.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[steamboatin]

I believe I already own Roy Cooke's book, if not, I have read it. I own a bunch of poker books and I sometimes forget which ones I own and which I don't own but have read.

I never worry when losses occur other than to double check my game to make sure they are not self-inflicted.

I wouldn't want anyone on this forum to think that I don't appreciate their advice or that I don't carefully consider everything I am told even when it is something I don't particularly want to hear.

[PokerintheI]

[ QUOTE ]
Steam - do yourself a favor and give yourself a dedicated amount to start a bankroll and only play from within this bankroll. All winnings remain inside the bankroll so it can continue to grow. Since you were talking in the range of $500 I think its best that we start small and cross our fingers that you run good, put $3,000 aside as your dedicated poker money. This way if you lose a session your wife has nothing to complain about, it will never impact your standard of living. Conversely when you have a winning session she can be safe and secure in knowing that you have added padding to your roll so the next time you have a losing session it still won't affect your standard of living.

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Unfortunatly TT, until you have a wife, or at least a wife like Steam's or mine, you will never understand how much this concept just doesn't work. I have a seperate bankroll. I have a seperate bank account that I keep it in, plus online accounts. But that is all for my purpose, not to keep my wife happy. The only reason I am still able to play poker at this point is that my wife has no real conception of the limits I play at. I have money that she doesn't have access to, and that bothers her.

Wives just don't seem to like the idea of "we are married, we have joint finances, we share everything... except my bankroll." Poker has paid for me to stay home for 6 weeks when my son was born, for a trip to Mexico, for numerous gifts for my wife, for a down payment on a car. And for all of that, my wife does not, and probably will never understand the necessity of a bankroll, or the relationship between a BR, play levels and hourly rate.

I don't even want to imagine the conversation I would be having if my wife knew that I lost $800 last week playing online. Regardless of the fact that it was only about 9% of my BR, and regardless of the fact that my BR started out as a $150 deposit with no redeposits. My wife would think of it as me losing $800 that could have made an extra payment on the mortgage.

I guess the point of this is: If you ever get married, make sure she understands the concept of the bankroll. Maybe even mention it in the vows.