"Outplaying"

[Elon_Poker23]

I agree with your idea, but I think your missing a big part of the game if thats what you believe. Although you captured the grasp of what alot of people now a days "try" to do by betting after a flop where people in front of them check...many players do it very well (not just DN and other top pros). If you have an excellant read on a player and have position on them, especially in a live game, you can take alot of their money just by betting when you know they don't have something. And the best part is...you can always hit a big flop and suck them in. However, this is just a small part of "outplaying" someone. I agree with you that when you truly "outplay" someone, you do it over the course of a session by slowly working into their stack and making better poker decisions when your in the hand with them. More often than not, however, you SHOULD find yourself making at least a play or two in position when you feel you have a good read. I think you will find yourself experiencing less success if you take that play out of your arsenal, even in a ring game.

[MikeSmith]

I blame all this outplaying because of moneymakers LEGENDARY bluff to farha which really makes me want to throw up.

Although im fine with the outplayers because they are paying off my good hands many times compared to the one time i folded the best hand to them.

Correction, i thank moneymaker for his "if all else fails just push"

[BigPoppa]

The phrase "outplay after the flop" has always amused me, as it is usually a euphemism for "bluff them into folding", which often leads into "hopelessly dumping chips with a crap hand".

I "outplay" my opponents all the time by folding utter crap before the flop. I sometimes "outplay" my opponents by folding on the flop when I whiff.

[LearnedfromTV]

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because 22-66 has to fold.

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I take it this isn't for $20NL?

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I don't understand what you mean. The meaning of my line there is that if someone raises with 22 and faces a reraise push from someone who will reraise push any pair, AK-AJ, KQ, the person holding 22 would be correct to call if he knows that he is facing KQ. But even when he is facing KQ, he doesn't know it, and he can't call because he doesn't have odds against the range.

[SoBeDude]

Outplaying is more than bluffing. In tournaments, especially online, it is a very rare occurence that you are deep enough to pull off some sort of elaborate bluff. So what is outplaying? Its getting your chips in when you're ahead. Its folding when you know you're beat. Its not getting in a pot to begin with because the situation just isn't favorable. Its check/calling a hyper-aggro w/ a mediocre hand. Its hand-reading. Its pot-control. There's more to outplaying than raising.

This is the best single paragraph written in this forum in well over a year.

-Scott

[dmk]

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Outplaying is more than bluffing. In tournaments, especially online, it is a very rare occurence that you are deep enough to pull off some sort of elaborate bluff. So what is outplaying? Its getting your chips in when you're ahead. Its folding when you know you're beat. Its not getting in a pot to begin with because the situation just isn't favorable. Its check/calling a hyper-aggro w/ a mediocre hand. Its hand-reading. Its pot-control. There's more to outplaying than raising.

This is the best single paragraph written in this forum in well over a year.

-Scott

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Thank you much

[DWarrior]

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because 22-66 has to fold.

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I take it this isn't for $20NL?

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I don't understand what you mean. The meaning of my line there is that if someone raises with 22 and faces a reraise push from someone who will reraise push any pair, AK-AJ, KQ, the person holding 22 would be correct to call if he knows that he is facing KQ. But even when he is facing KQ, he doesn't know it, and he can't call because he doesn't have odds against the range.

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I mean I honestly don't believe most people think like this.

[RichC.]

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okay ya, but Matt Damon definitely did outplay Johnny Chan

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And this is where the whole "outplay" got its true birth into poker speak. Matt Damon, thank you. And by the way, you cant outplay people who dont fold. Learned that lesson the hard way, several times.

-Rich

[yellowdoyle]

I just read EuroRounders........hilarious.

[gurka456]

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My favorite is when two players have middle pairs and it ends up all in, and if the hands had been reversed, they would've been played exactly the same.

Then the lower pair catches a set and the guy who got unlucky with the bigger pair bemoans "outplaying" the smaller pair, but getting unlucky.

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LL NL PS:
Many limpers, I in BB w/t 45s checks.
Flop 459r
I bet, one raise from MP LAG >>> money goes in otf.
Board ends up 459Kx and he has K9o for higher 2 pair.
I go: nh, very lucky (steaming)
he go: whaddaya mean lucky, I outplayed you!!!
I go: no
Bystander go: no, he had 2 pairs on the flop and you got lucky
fool goes: whatever, I won so I outplayed him

*I pray he doesn't leave the table soon...which he did.*