how israel reacts to attacks

[Cyrus]

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Another nice attempt at misdirection by erecting an artificial distinction between Hezbollah and the state that they operate from when that state is unwilling or unable to stop them.

[/ QUOTE ] Why is the distinction artificial?

Do you seriously believe that Hezbollah attacking Israel carries the same gravity as Lebanon attacking Israel? (The discussion is getting really weird.)

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And as well attempting to maintain that territorial adjacentness is the standard for being surrounded, when it is actually being within missile range as well.

[/ QUOTE ] This convoluted jumble does not make any sense. But is "adjacentness" even a word ? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[BluffTHIS!]

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Do you seriously believe that Hezbollah attacking Israel carries the same gravity as Lebanon attacking Israel? (This discussion is getting really weird.)

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I can see how you wouldn't believe that if you value jewish lives less in value than the ones of radical moslems or their supporters/enablers.

[ACPlayer]

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Do you seriously believe that Hezbollah attacking Israel carries the same gravity as Lebanon attacking Israel? (This discussion is getting really weird.)

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I can see how you wouldn't believe that if you value jewish lives less in value than the ones of radical moslems or their supporters/enablers.

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Oddly enough he values both lives the same. Likely pretty high.

The muslims value both lives pretty much the same. The value here is quite low, whether that of a relative child sent as suicide bomber or that of a relative child killed in a suicide attack.

The Jews value muslims (and perhaps Christian, at least Lebanese Christians) as less than those of a Jew. 2 captured Jews equals at least 100 dead non-Jews, and a 100,000 displaced and dispossessed non-Jews.

If there is a double standard, it is not Cyrus.

[primetime32]

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The muslims value both lives pretty much the same. The value here is quite low, whether that of a relative child sent as suicide bomber or that of a relative child killed in a suicide attack.

The Jews value muslims (and perhaps Christian, at least Lebanese Christians) as less than those of a Jew. 2 captured Jews equals at least 100 dead non-Jews, and a 100,000 displaced and dispossessed non-Jews.

If there is a double standard, it is not Cyrus.

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Its not that muslims value their lives any less (or equal to a jew) because a few become sucidie bombers, but rather they value the reward of becoming a martyr and the 72 virgins.

Do you think those few terrorists on 9/11 valued their lives the same as the thousands they killed in their attacks?

Your argument is an atrocious one and i hope you truly understand that and were only trying to stir things up. If you actually believed what you wrote i honestly feel bad for you.

Honestly, do you just defend radical muslim terrorists for fun, or are you going to come up with something useful?

[ACPlayer]

Please explain why my argument is atrocious? Can you point to a statement I have made that is incorrect?

Some of it is debatable -- do militant muslims actually value their lives less than or more than Jews. Not sure, I do believe that they place little value on any life. This is actually also pretty much true in most of Asia and Africa, where life is not viewed the same way as in the west.

Some is not debatable. The example I gave of the captured soldiers vs the numbers of dead and displaced lebanese; the number of dead Israelis in the last 20 years vs the number of dead Palestinians at the hands of the other.


The 72 virgins is just smoke screen. Lets talk about the fundamental view of the militant islamist, the western world, and the Israeli.

I rarely write what I dont believe -- and then it is obvious.

[ACPlayer]

Why is my statement that radical muslims have demonstrated that they do not value any life, a defense of their viewpoint?

It is a viewpoint I do not share and find unacceptable.

[primetime32]

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Please explain why my argument is atrocious? Can you point to a statement I have made that is incorrect?

Some of it is debatable -- do militant muslims actually value their lives less than or more than Jews. Not sure, I do believe that they place little value on any life. This is actually also pretty much true in most of Asia and Africa, where life is not viewed the same way as in the west.

Some is not debatable. The example I gave of the captured soldiers vs the numbers of dead and displaced lebanese; the number of dead Israelis in the last 20 years vs the number of dead Palestinians at the hands of the other.


The 72 virgins is just smoke screen. Lets talk about the fundamental view of the militant islamist, the western world, and the Israeli.

I rarely write what I dont believe -- and then it is obvious.

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Youre point was that jews value their lives more than muslims value their own lives. In doing so, you made it seem as if muslims are on a higher moral ground since they equally don't value human life. So when a muslim kills a jew, you can defend the muslim by saying that at least the muslim is applying his morals equally.

You then make it seem as if jews look down on muslims as if they are somehow superior to muslims which is why they feel they can kill 100 muslims for every 1 jew killed.

This is what i understood from your post.

My response was that your point only serves to justify the muslim way of doing things. However, the fact is that muslims do value their own lives very deeply. And the main reason they do not kill as many jews in these conflicts, is not by choice, but because they are militarily incapable of doing so.

I am sure if you asked any muslim comming out of a mosque in your local town if he thought he valued his or his fellow muslims any less than the jews value their own lives, you may get a bit of an argument.

Muslims, by nature, are not suicide bombers. Only a handful out of millions ever kill themselves in the name of allah.

[Cyrus]

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Do you seriously believe that Hezbollah attacking Israel carries the same gravity as Lebanon attacking Israel?

[/ QUOTE ]I can see how you wouldn't believe that if you value jewish lives less in value than the ones of radical moslems.

[/ QUOTE ]Boy, are you a glutton for punishment! Do you get a kick out of your "arguments" being made mincemeat on the forums like this or what? Be honest.

We were comparing the gravity of Lebanon attacking Israel as opposed to Hezbollah attacking Israel. This comparison is made because you blithely claimed that Hezbollah staging attacks against Israel is the same as if Lebanon did that -- ergo Israel has every right to retaliate as if it is in war with Lebanon, etcetera.

Lebanon has some 310 heavy tanks and 1,300 armoured vehicles. Also, 6 aircraft and 60 helicopters. The standing army is about 70,000 strong. These are figures, not hearsay or "opinion". Pause a little over them. Let the figures sink in. Get it now? No one in his right mind could claim that Hezbollah could be a threat to Israel as much as Lebanon could.

I'm not saying that Lebanon would win!.. Neither Lebanon nor Hezbollah nor all the Arab "front-line" countries combined can do that! I'm stating the obvious (which has to be hammered into your think tank, presumably, more than once) : Hezbollah cannot be compared to the state itself of Lebanon. "It's not even close!" Therefore, arguing that Israel must respond against Hezbollah with the same severity that it would attack Lebanon is an argument based on a plain and simple fallacy.

--Cyrus

[BluffTHIS!]

Cyrus,

Hezbollah has to attack from some geographical location, and also use other geographical locations to supply those bases from which they attack. Therefore Israel has to focus their attacks on such geographical locations and not an imaginary Hezbollahistan that exists apart from Lebanon.

And let's look at those figures you give for the Lebanese military. They certainly seem sufficient to occupy the border areas and deal with a militia. If they aren't doing same then that nonaction is a policy of the Lebanese government which de facto makes them part of Hezbollah's attack. And if the case is that they don't actually have the resources to deal with Hezbollah, then they have effectively abdicated their sovereignty in such areas or had it taken from them by Hezbollah.

[C0pernicus]

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Do you seriously believe that Hezbollah attacking Israel carries the same gravity as Lebanon attacking Israel?

[/ QUOTE ]I can see how you wouldn't believe that if you value jewish lives less in value than the ones of radical moslems.

[/ QUOTE ]Boy, are you a glutton for punishment! Do you get a kick out of your "arguments" being made mincemeat on the forums like this or what? Be honest.

We were comparing the gravity of Lebanon attacking Israel as opposed to Hezbollah attacking Israel. This comparison is made because you blithely claimed that Hezbollah staging attacks against Israel is the same as if Lebanon did that -- ergo Israel has every right to retaliate as if it is in war with Lebanon, etcetera.

Lebanon has some 310 heavy tanks and 1,300 armoured vehicles. Also, 6 aircraft and 60 helicopters. The standing army is about 70,000 strong. These are figures, not hearsay or "opinion". Pause a little over them. Let the figures sink in. Get it now? No one in his right mind could claim that Hezbollah could be a threat to Israel as much as Lebanon could.

I'm not saying that Lebanon would win!.. Neither Lebanon nor Hezbollah nor all the Arab "front-line" countries combined can do that! I'm stating the obvious (which has to be hammered into your think tank, presumably, more than once) : Hezbollah cannot be compared to the state itself of Lebanon. "It's not even close!" Therefore, arguing that Israel must respond against Hezbollah with the same severity that it would attack Lebanon is an argument based on a plain and simple fallacy.

--Cyrus

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No, its an argument based on Hezbollah being a proxy for Iran and Syria, and is in fact a far more dangerous enemy than an army that reflects the impotence of the central Lebanese government.