Allin every time right?

[Poker Fool]

it is not about hero being scared, it is about villians getting scared.

Say one of them has AK, he does not hit the flop and gets away the majority of the time.

One of them has KK, an ace falls and he shuts down.

Maybe one of them has QQ, then a King or an Ace frightens them.

Just get the money in preflop before the villians work out they are behind or fear they are behind.

If you get the pot heads by pushing, then fine, dead money has been created and your a bigger favourite to take the pot down at showdown.

[FeNeF]

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Kc Qc 9c 8c 2d

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Kc is used (Kc Qs)

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goddamn i even ctrl+f searched it.. wtf

[notevenhere]

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Calling PF is pretty clearly better IMO. You don't need to "protect" your aces preflop in a situation like this, the more the merrier.

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You need to protect any hand you have. Why are you even raising AA in the first place, if the more the merrier is true? How many players do you find is the "merriest" to play pocket aces against? One? Two? Four? Six?

Against 5 players, AA is a dog to the entire field.


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If you can't stomach losing a pot to a 77 that catches up then move down a level.

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What does this even mean? Who has a weaker stomach: The guy who puts all his money in pre-flop, or the guy who does not?

[BalugaWhale]

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Why are you even raising AA in the first place, if the more the merrier is true?

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We raise for value and protection. What we lose in protection we gain in value.

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Against 5 players, AA is a dog to the entire field.


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True, but I don't care about whether I'm a dog, I care about EV. If its more EV to call and try to string the button along, then thats what should be done.

I think there is probably minimal EV difference between pushing and hoping he calls, and calling and pushing the flop. I think the money goes all-in roughly the same either way. So, as I said before, I think both are fine. It just depends on your read of the button.

[younghov17]

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Calling PF is pretty clearly better IMO. You don't need to "protect" your aces preflop in a situation like this, the more the merrier.

If you can't stomach losing a pot to a 77 that catches up then move down a level.

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with a pot this big and so little left to win this makes no sense. calling is clearly wrong

[FeNeF]

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You need to protect any hand you have. Why are you even raising AA in the first place, if the more the merrier is true? How many players do you find is the "merriest" to play pocket aces against? One? Two? Four? Six?

Against 5 players, AA is a dog to the entire field.




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Because the pot is so big compared to stacks already, people don't have the implied odds to call with anything. Therefore they would be making a mistake to call, therefore you should give them every to do so. I think the only question here is whether calling or raising is better to do so, and I think calling is.

And 6-handed AA might be less than 50% to win the pot, but you have SIX PLAYERS MONEY in the pot! It's definitely a higher variance play which will lose money the majority of the time (hence my comment about stomaching variance) but if you can't see how this is a hugely +EV situation then I can't help you.

[Keys Myaths]

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Easiest preflop all-in ever. I could see smoothcalling if it were heads up, if villains were any good, or if they had a lot of money left behind and could possibly fold to your all-in.

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I understand pushing pre-flop, that's given, but there are three or four people in this thread that want people to fold to my preflop AI.

WHY?

That's absolutely ridiculous. We want them to call, all day long, unless they're getting pot-odds to call (which they aren't with a lower PP or AK, which is what they would normally have here).

So what's the deal? Are people here that much afraid of a bad beat?

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Read the thread carefully. Don't misrepresent what others above have been saying. I'll recap since you don't understand the point of contention.

Hero concedes that he is all-in no matter what the flop brings. So the question is:

What is better? Calling pre-flop, or pushing?

Pushing is standard, so we don't need to discuss why it is good. However, some have advocated calling instead of pushing. So we are discussing the merits.

The advocates for calling are contending that pushing may result in people folding.

My point is that if they fold, great. We've just increased our chances of winning in a big pot. If they come along, great. Now we have all our money in with the best hand.


Also, did you miss the discussion on how calling gives implied odds to someone with any PP?


Calling is less EV than pushing. That is the argument.

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Quoted the wrong post. My bad. Wanted to quote the person who said why raise when you lose 50% of the time.

[FeNeF]

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My point is that if they fold, great. We've just increased our chances of winning in a big pot. If they come along, great. Now we have all our money in with the best hand.


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Missed this post.

This is where your logic breaks down. Having more players coming along is pure +EV for us. Why be content with pushing and probably folding everyone out when you can have more?

[younghov17]

hero raised, utg raised big, button raised even bigger, they are very likely not folding, not both of them anyway. at this point u must reraise because the pot has gotten so big that winning whats in it now is more important then trying to win any future bets that wont even be as big as the pot.

u could make an arguement for calling if stacks were very deep because u have the potential to win a lot to make up for your small mistake. yoru trading a small mistake for a potentially huge one. that possiblity isnt rpesent when button only has 7 more to win and utg only has 15

[younghov17]

also if 1 of them has ak/jj/qq seeing a flop allows them to possible get away from their hand, when theyd almost certainly call an all ii considering how much they have invested compared to their stack