How long till I win??

[COLDWOLF#1]

finally finished my 10 tourney sampling:
$1 45 player sitngo -3rd- place guy hit 2 outer on me
$1 45 player sitngo-32nd-got smooth called by AA
$5 45 player sitngo-8th-my KK lost to 77 due to 4 hearts
$4 180 player sitngo-4th-lost to pocAA
$6 50 player sitngo-17th-poc9s vs.pocJJs allin PF on button
$6 50 player sitngo-3rd-flopped 2pair...trip5s killed me
$6 30 player sitngo-6th-pocAA kills me again
$5 27 player sitngo-3rd-lower kicker
$6 20 player sitngo-2nd-disconnected during heads up
$6 10 player sitngo-4th-pushed JJvsA10 preflop
Soooo had 8 final tables out of 10
Cashed 5 of 10 tourneys
Bubbled 2 cashes



winnings $161.10 minus $47.40 entry fees=$113.70 net profit
WHAT A GRIND......NOT FUN...I would not play every day even if you promised me these results.I want to put up 5 t 20 bucks and maybe hit 4 grand...or hit 5% of the final tables I play in MTTs ..Or ive been thinking...what aboutsatilites to the 100 to 200.00 tourneys?Can I get decent cashes if I win a qualifier to a big tourney???If it pays 248 places and its a decent chunk ...id be happy....No way can i play this sng nitemare till i get 200.00 and enter the 200+15 tourneys..ZERO fun..Almost finished HOH#1...got HOH#2 sittin here..(drool....)
Question #1 do I play satellites,rebuys.etc..to Qualify for big tourneys..and then try to concentrate hard and finish in the money,becoming progressively better?
#2 play larger entry fees $20 to $100 with fields of 90 to ??and pray the sharks dont eat me?
#3 Keep pluggin with the daily 3 to $5 dollar MTTs losin a few HUndred a month and Ill start hittin soon?
Please tell me if there is sites other then pokerstars and partypoker that have good MTTs I might try.
Thank you for your continued (this guy is SUCH A DONK patience)My long term goal on my 1000th post is to be whining:"I get to all these final tables but just cant get 1st everytime,what should I do??"LOL

[tedtodd]

You're getting some decent finishes in the micro level donkfests. If you have trouble closing out a tourney with the final 3 or 4 players- the 6man sng's are great practice for this.

I've been playing NL cash games and STT's for 3 years- i've always taken random shots at MTT's. I started playing Bodog, and took a shot at their daily $15 tourney- $2k guaranteed last November. There were 220 runners and I took first. I came into my first final table as CL- and i closed it out for $1100. Previous to this- I'd only had a few 1st tier payouts. I started playing alot of their daily $5's and 10's, and I won them each within the next few weeks, the largest field being 340. It was a good run. But then I nearly busted my bankroll trying to only play MTT's and playing higher buyins. I had had some wins and success- but I really didn't 'know' what i was doing. I then read HOH 1 and 2 -built back up thru Sng's and started playing some bigger fields on Party and Stars.

I had some mixed success until May when I hit 6 FT's between Stars, Party and Bodog. Had a few 1sts in the lower buyins, but busted out early in the >10k prize pool tournies. It was a good month, and I've transitioned ot 90% MTT's.

You should try the Bodog tourneys- lots of overlays, and fields between 160-350, but you should really make sure you fully understand the game. Read your HandHistorys, read other players HH's too, jsut keep learning and trying to make sense of what players are doing, and you'll eventually hit something good.

[ZenMasterFlex]

I can promise you worse results. You ran better than you normally will.

[Machinehead]

I'm actually pretty suprised how long a lot of you have played without winning.

Before I became a "serious player" I used to play big $6-33 MTTs on party and never did good, barely squeezed into the money a couple times. I then started playing cash games and abandoned tournaments. I did really well on cash games and eventually was able to survive with it being my sole income for almost a year playing 6max limit games on party.

Then a couple months ago I met an old friend who has been living off poker for about 3-4 years, doing very well. He told me he switched to big tournaments on party a while back. He won a couple big ones like the Supers and $200+ buyins.

So he got my curiosity about tournaments going again and I started playing a few. I did good right away, getting to 2 final tables, then winning 3 within a couple weeks. The last being a $162 buyin that paid $12k. I hit a long nothing streak of around 100 MTTs of nothing until a got a 3rd place a week ago and a 1st place today on a $109 that paid 7k. As I write this I'm at a final table of a $33 limit tourney as the chip leader.

I think if you've been playing for 1-2 yrs and haven't won once, or haven't hit at least top3 twice....you've gotta be playing to lose.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]


Here's a link with good and brief MTT advice, stage by stage.
http://www.bet-the-pot.com/multi-tab...ts-page63.html
It helped me focus on stepping up the ladder, where earlier I had been guiltity of playing for 1st only. I found actually focusing on one rung of the ladder at a time really helped me. In a $20 MTT-180 at Stars, I was 19 of 19 ih chips with 19 left. 18 make the $. Well, I was the low man on the totem pole all the way to 3rd, made $400, but 2 months ago I woulda flamed out a lot earlier trying to becoome chip leader with 10 left.
Alright, there's my rambling 4th of July advice.
Good luck Coldwolf.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not like the MTT advice given in that thread. For example, big stacks, or anyone, playing tight/passive at the start of a final table is exactly the type of opponent I want and exactly the style I try to avoid playing.

Also, tight/passive early seems to be a recipe for being a pushbotting shortstack no matter what later. You need to grab chips if you want to accumulate chips. Sooner or later, you have to accumulate chips to beat the escalating blinds. This advice seems to be good for a player that doesn't know how to play deepstacked no limit at all.

My respectful disagreement

[Rocco]

[ QUOTE ]

winnings $161.10 minus $47.40 entry fees=$113.70 net profit
WHAT A GRIND......NOT FUN...I would not play every day even if you promised me these results.I want to put up 5 t 20 bucks and maybe hit 4 grand...or hit 5% of the final tables I play in MTTs

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've got to stop this thinking. You gotta learn how to walk before you can run. Look upon the small tourneys as training and you'll eventually get better. This week I have won 2 out of 6 $4 180-man SnG's for a total of $432. Also, I won a lot more than that when I finished 2nd in a bigger tourney but I'm just as happy (maybe even more happy) about my two 1st places. Winning a tournament is better for your confidence than big cashes. Your main focus should be to improve your tournament skills, not just take down a huge pay-out once in a while. With increased skills, 4-figure cashes comes naturally. 4-figure cashes --> happy wife [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If I play 25 tournies a week, 17-18 of those are small ones even though I'm bankrolled for higher buy-ins. View the small ones as serious training sessions and apply the concepts when you play big tournies. I can't stress enough how great these 180 man SnG's are for practise.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
WHAT A GRIND......NOT FUN

[/ QUOTE ] dude, if it's not fun, why are you playing?

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]

Also if you find you are cosistantly going deep in MTTs but always coming up short, you're probably playing too tight. I suggest you play a more loose-aggressive style, and do whatever it takes to build up a big stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is too one-sided of a view. I think both styles of play have their merit. Tight and Loose. Every time I have problems and get upset with myself about playing "stupidly", I re-evaluate and actually "tighten" up my game. Most recently, I had been running bad for a few days (really playing bad, mostly), so I decided to start with the basics and tighten up my starting hand requirements and the very same night, I finished 1st in a $3 tourny on Stars. So, really what I'm trying to say is it's not about playing "looser" or even "tighter", but it's about playing smarter. For instance, limping in with a suited connector can pay off big dividends, but is so much less profitable if you are first in. The implied odds are so much greater limping behind MULTIPLE players. This is where playing smarter comes in. If your playing so many hands, hoping to hit a big hand then you are simply bleeding off chips. Look for specific situations and play position.

TAG and LAG are just simply 2 different styles. One is not necessarily more profitable than the other. You simply have to know how to apply both styles of play.

Keep reading up, keep posting and keep re-evaluating your game. Plug the leaks. Play the math and the situation and you'll get there. Just posting here shows you have a willingness to learn. Good luck.

[AFennewald]

I agree that advice is pretty bad. Playing tight passive is pretty much always bad. Tripling up early is very doable in a lowish buy in tourney. Then you actually have enough chips to abuse the tight passive players in the second hour.
I do sometimes slow down at the final table when I have a ton of chips but that is because I was playing so laggy at the final table bubble that I should slow down. But I slow down to tight aggressive not tight passive.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Here's a link with good and brief MTT advice, stage by stage.
http://www.bet-the-pot.com/multi-tab...ts-page63.html
It helped me focus on stepping up the ladder, where earlier I had been guiltity of playing for 1st only. I found actually focusing on one rung of the ladder at a time really helped me. In a $20 MTT-180 at Stars, I was 19 of 19 ih chips with 19 left. 18 make the $. Well, I was the low man on the totem pole all the way to 3rd, made $400, but 2 months ago I woulda flamed out a lot earlier trying to becoome chip leader with 10 left.
Alright, there's my rambling 4th of July advice.
Good luck Coldwolf.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not like the MTT advice given in that thread. For example, big stacks, or anyone, playing tight/passive at the start of a final table is exactly the type of opponent I want and exactly the style I try to avoid playing.

Also, tight/passive early seems to be a recipe for being a pushbotting shortstack no matter what later. You need to grab chips if you want to accumulate chips. Sooner or later, you have to accumulate chips to beat the escalating blinds. This advice seems to be good for a player that doesn't know how to play deepstacked no limit at all.

My respectful disagreement

[/ QUOTE ]

[AceLuby]

If you want to learn the fundamentals of big MTT I would suggest the 4/180's on stars. It will show you how to survive the minefield at the beginning, why it is important to steal blinds during the middle and late game, and what it takes to finish a tourney. I played about 20 MTT's on stars before the 4/180's were introduced and played about 20 of those without cashing once. I subscribed to 2+2 and the very next tourney I won. Since then I have a couple of wins, a 3rd and a bunch of 6-18. Keep reading, studying, putting your 2 cents in, get flamed, but don't get discouraged. See you at the tables.