Is Limit Hold 'em Dead?

[andyfox]

"the guy who makes the calls ends up banging the lights out of beautful women and buying fur coats for them . . . Like Andy's 77 hand where he made the river call."

From your lips to God's ears . . .

[Isura]

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Seems to be a ton of great limit players just don't post anymore or very rarely. It's sort of a shame but I totally understand it too. It is possible to outgrow these forums and I think a lot of people have a close network of fellow high stakes players they talk about stuff with in person or on AIM or whatever. Also the 2k NL players on Party that post in HSNL definitely seem more vocal than the 100/200 limit players who lurk in these forums. Not sure why that is.

-DeathDonkey

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10/20 NL is not neary as big as 100/200. You still don't see much discussion about 25/50 and bigger online NL games on 2+2.

[Josh.]

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10/20 NL is not neary as big as 100/200.

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then why do they require similar bankrolls? i think diablo nailed it. good limit hold'em is just not that interesting most of the time. once you get to the point where you can play good limit hold'em there's no need to discuss 99.99% of situations

[Peter_rus]

My opinion is - that lesser pool of active players in high stakes limits in compare to NL forces people to hide their knowledge. I'm also find myself thinking more about how much given info can hurt me before posting here. This thing didn't really bothered me when i played 15/30.

Also there could be another reason. Mistakes in NL cost more than in limit, so mistakes in rare situations, that seems to be non-critical for limit (though i think at high limit games such things are critical also) - are critical for NL . Not much people cares about losing a fraction of BB, but a lot cry and try to find the answer after losing stack. Though this could be also the mistake that cost you only fraction of BB, but NL-situations are more notable and hurting. So this also can be a reason why NL-structure of betting provokes discussion of wider range of situations/opponent's styles.

[mike l.]

i think all of you should continue to take up NL. that is all.

[thedustbustr]

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10/20 NL is not neary as big as 100/200. You still don't see much discussion about 25/50 and bigger online NL games on 2+2.

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I think 10/20 is slightly bigger than 100/200. 5/10nl is roughly 30/60 or 40/80, using rough analogies like winrate and bankroll.

I don't think there is much discussion about 5knl+ because party doesn't spread it.

FWIW, I've been thinking about learning limit, if only to eventually play nosebleed stakes live. Also, limit seems "funner" - more information, play 3 streets every time, etc. NL tends to go ch ca, ch ca, bet ca; or bet, raise, allin - booooring.

also, nl won't be popular forever, the fish are dying [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

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I think 10/20 is slightly bigger than 100/200. 5/10nl is roughly 30/60 or 40/80, using rough analogies like winrate and bankroll.

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The average pot in a 10/20 NL game is on the order of $300. The average pot in a 100/200 limit game is on the order of $1000. A typical bankroll for 100/200 limit would be 500 big bets, or $100,000. A typical bankroll for 10/20 NL would be about 25 buy-ins, or $50,000. So how is 10/20 NL the bigger game?

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think 10/20 pots are more like 400-600 depending how good the game is. And a suitable BR is closer to 100K than 50K. But who really cares? The games are probably pretty comparable in size but 10/20 is probably a bit smaller. The dynamics of the games and players is probably pretty similar, though, which is what's important for this discussion.

[Number27]

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The average pot in a 10/20 NL game is on the order of $300. The average pot in a 100/200 limit game is on the order of $1000. A typical bankroll for 100/200 limit would be 500 big bets, or $100,000. A typical bankroll for 10/20 NL would be about 25 buy-ins, or $50,000. So how is 10/20 NL the bigger game?

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Everything I've seen suggests that $50,000 is way too small of a BR for 10/20 NL. At least on party the game plays such that 10 buy-in downswings are pretty normal. I think most 10/20NL pros have at least a $100,000 BR and at least some decent percentage have $200,000+.

[Fabian]

I doubt the 100/200 regulars' bankrolls are generally only 100k too though. I don't really see 10/20 being the bigger game either, though of course it doesn't matter much.