GOSH-DARN MINRAISERS

[Triumph36]

'Call and play poker' means 'call and re-evaluate your position on the turn'. Call and play poker sounds a lot better which is why it's used in place of 'call this street and try to narrow down your opponent's hand range given his bet size on the turn, or lack of a bet, and play accordingly'. If he donks the turn small, you may raise - if he bets big, you may fold - you may call any of these too if you have some sort of timing read. If he checks you may bet yourself. You may check behind when he checks also. Since all these options are open and none of them particularly -EV, this is why we use the phrase 'call and play poker'.

Raising here on the flop is really bad.

[FreakDaddy]

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OMG freakdaddy! Welcome back!

How's the 100BB challenge coming along?

I would bet less on the flop, and I would just call the min-raise, then play poker on the turn.

Against some villians, with a good image, I will re-raise for value.

And checking is fine and good, on occation, as well. Specific conditions I would prefer to have in place would be agro villian who will fire with air. Some sort of reason for people to think that I might not be continuation betting as frequently as normal. To be seen calling down light, in recent hands.

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Thanks. Been playing a lot of live high stakes games lately for a change and not visiting the forum much.

The challenge went fine. I quit after ~4k hands, and came very close. Got bored and realized that people completely misunderstood my statements.

I agree that ideally I'd rather check against an aggro opponent in order to induce a mistake, but I do the same against an unknown in position for precisely these reasons with this hand and this flop. I don't want to play a big pot with this hand, but I'll gladly call down with position on turn and river.

I guess I've been doing these more in my live games and seeing good results. I haven't been playing a lot of online games recently though, but I thought I'd share this with the forum. A read a recent poll somewhere that when most amateur poker players are asked what are the key components of winning at poker the top two responses were bluffing and luck. I don't recall the number of responses, but I think that sums up the state of mind of a lot of our opponents.

[Big_Jim]

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I read a recent poll somewhere that when most amateur poker players are asked what are the key components of winning at poker the top two responses were bluffing and luck. I don't recall the number of responses, but I think that sums up the state of mind of a lot of our opponents.

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LOL, what a bunch of retards. Don't they realize that the key component of winning poker is sweet shades and an iPod?

[yvesaint]

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call, AI on turn.
easiest hand, i love busting ppl on their first hand in the game.

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zzzzz once again the answer is lost in a bunch of wordy other posts about god knows what

[nath]

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I find it interesting that the best advice you can give is, "call, then play poker". That is an absolute gem I'm sure, but might be more useful to philosophers or zen buddhists than poker players.

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Perhaps your problem is you assume those groups are mutually exclusive.

[nath]

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A read a recent poll somewhere that when most amateur poker players are asked what are the key components of winning at poker the top two responses were bluffing and luck. I don't recall the number of responses, but I think that sums up the state of mind of a lot of our opponents.

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The poker boom will never end.

[DJ Sensei]

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call, AI on turn.
easiest hand, i love busting ppl on their first hand in the game.

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zzzzz once again the answer is lost in a bunch of wordy other posts about god knows what

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[slartibartfast]

Big Jim:

I have actually bothered to think about this exact scenario and have taken a poll from 2+2-ers on the subject. I stated that most respondents think the min-raise means the nuts. I doubt this majority view is "completely incorrect", although it is certainly not impossible that you are miles ahead of the average poster.

If this is the case I'm not surprised you keep your valuable insight to yourself. I on the other hand have made my views clear in this situation; top choice - fold (as suggested by the poll results), next (by a long way) raise.

If you merely call you have delayed the exact same difficult decision to the turn, whilst potentially paying off better hands in the process. His small bet might mean the nuts, his large bet could mean the nuts, a non-bet could be a slow-play. Perhaps though you hit one of your 5 outs. Would you usually call a large bet with 5 outs? If you do is your 2-pair good or does he now have the full-house? Over 80% of online players are losers, I wonder what percentage of 2+2-ers pay their mortgage from the game like I do.

[yvesaint]

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Big Jim:

I have actually bothered to think about this exact scenario and have taken a poll from 2+2-ers on the subject. I stated that most respondents think the min-raise means the nuts. I doubt this majority view is "completely incorrect", although it is certainly not impossible that you are miles ahead of the average poster.

If this is the case I'm not surprised you keep your valuable insight to yourself. I on the other hand have made my views clear in this situation; top choice - fold (as suggested by by poll results), next (by a long way) raise.

If you merely call you have delayed the exact same difficult decision to the turn, whilst potentially paying off better hands in the process. His small bet might mean the nuts, his large bet could mean the nuts, a non-bet could be a slow-play. Perhaps though you hit one of your 5 outs. Would you usually call a large bet with 5 outs? If you do is your 2-pair good or does he now have the full-house? Over 80% of online players are losers, I wonder what percentage of 2+2-ers pay their mortgage from the game like I do.

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1. your poll is pretty much useless. sample size, lack of a random sampling, not to mention voting could include players of limits from 25 NL to 2k NL.

2. this is not a "fold or raise situation". call is far better than both options imo. you obviously dont see why.

3. you have position.

4. if you raise the flop, do you think he continues with a weaker K?

5. if you call the flop, and he bets 1/2 pot to pot on the turn, and you raise him all in, do you think he continues with a weaker K?

6. if you raise flop, do you think he continues with a bluff?

7. if you call flop, do you think theres a chance he bluffs again on the turn?

seriously slartibartfast. this stuff should be obvious.

[yvesaint]

"Over 80% of online players are losers, I wonder what percentage of 2+2-ers pay their mortgage from the game like I do. "

what does this mean? are you saying just because we dont play poker as a job, we are losing players? or something like that? i dont get it. i play and i am a winning player. and i say call this flop. other winning players say call this flop.

edit: and even if they DONT, they DEFINITELY dont say its only a "raise or fold" decision.

this is FAR from a raise or fold decision.