Israel's Attack on Lebanon and Hezbollah

[Copernicus]

The question that raises is why they didnt leave. If they had approached Israel for a brief hiatus in bombing I doubt they would have been denied. Do you interpret what he said as HZB was restricting their movement?

[BCPVP]

"You see, we had to drop a bunker buster on that UN post. He had Charlie crawling all over it!"

I've read very little about any HZB killed by the attacks on and around the UN post. Any info on that?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
"You see, we had to drop a bunker buster on that UN post. He had Charlie crawling all over it!"

I've read very little about any HZB killed by the attacks on and around the UN post. Any info on that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you defend Hizbollah's use of rockets fired into Israel that are specifically designed to cause civilian casualties?

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"You see, we had to drop a bunker buster on that UN post. He had Charlie crawling all over it!"

I've read very little about any HZB killed by the attacks on and around the UN post. Any info on that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you defend Hizbollah's use of rockets fired into Israel that are specifically designed to cause civilian casualties?

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course not. Have I not been clear enough in opposing civilian casualties? F*** Hezbollah and their tactics!

[ACPlayer]

In this forum, is opposition to Israel, the same as anti-semitic? It sure is being bandied around a lot.

Question for the mods.

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
sniper and nicky,

One of the following is true:

1) The UN is totally ineffective;

2) The UN is helping Hezbollah in some way.


So the solution to avoiding having their positions hit, either intentionally or not, is simply to leave, since they don't need to be in harm's way if they are ineffective, and shouldn't be there if they helping one side or the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the following is true:

1. The IDF is incompetent.
2. The IDF forces are insubordinate.

Note that the PM had given assurances to the UN that their post would not be hit. If there were complaints about the UN post hiding Hez rocket launchers (hard to believe, but OK, if the complaint exists) then perhaps Olmert could have chatted with Kofi. Something like: "old chap, we have hez rockets from your compound, in 5 hours we will be bombing you" instead of bombing around them for 10 hours and then dropping precision guided missiles on their hands.

So, which is it -- incompetent or insubordinate?

Any takers on a wager that the IDF does not court martial their incompetent or insubordinate commanders.

The argument that all civilian casualties are because they hide, or could be hiding, or may perhaps hide Hez fighters is getting very old and very tiresome.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sniper and nicky,

One of the following is true:

1) The UN is totally ineffective;

2) The UN is helping Hezbollah in some way.


So the solution to avoiding having their positions hit, either intentionally or not, is simply to leave, since they don't need to be in harm's way if they are ineffective, and shouldn't be there if they helping one side or the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the following is true:

1. The IDF is incompetent.
2. The IDF forces are insubordinate.

Note that the PM had given assurances to the UN that their post would not be hit. If there were complaints about the UN post hiding Hez rocket launchers (hard to believe, but OK, if the complaint exists) then perhaps Olmert could have chatted with Kofi. Something like: "old chap, we have hez rockets from your compound, in 5 hours we will be bombing you" instead of bombing around them for 10 hours and then dropping precision guided missiles on their hands.

So, which is it -- incompetent or insubordinate?

Any takers on a wager that the IDF does not court martial their incompetent or insubordinate commanders.

The argument that all civilian casualties are because they hide, or could be hiding, or may perhaps hide Hez fighters is getting very old and very tiresome.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the fist time ive seen anything about assurances they wouldnt be hit. Where did that come from?

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
"This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long-established and clearly marked UN post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by [Israeli] Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared Israeli fire. Furthermore, General Alain Pellegrino, the UN force commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular UN position from attack."


[/ QUOTE ]

Emphasis is mine.

One link. There are likely others around as well.

Edit:

Not quite the same thing but another account to buttress my point about incompetence/insubordination:

[ QUOTE ]

Peacekeepers had called the Israel Defense Forces 10 times in a six-hour period to ask it to halt its nearby bombing
before their observation post was hit, killing four people, according to details of a preliminary UN report on the incident released to The Associated Press on Wednesday.

During each phone call, an Israeli official promised to halt the bombing, according to a UN official who had seen the preliminary report. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/S...;itemNo=743051

[/ QUOTE ]

There is actually a third option, which is more sinister: that the Israeli Military is running without listening to or heeding the political establishment. Reminiscent of the last Lebanese offensive.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long-established and clearly marked UN post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by [Israeli] Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared Israeli fire. Furthermore, General Alain Pellegrino, the UN force commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular UN position from attack."


[/ QUOTE ]

Emphasis is mine.

One link. There are likely others around as well.

Edit:

Not quite the same thing but another account to buttress my point about incompetence/insubordination:

[ QUOTE ]

Peacekeepers had called the Israel Defense Forces 10 times in a six-hour period to ask it to halt its nearby bombing
before their observation post was hit, killing four people, according to details of a preliminary UN report on the incident released to The Associated Press on Wednesday.

During each phone call, an Israeli official promised to halt the bombing, according to a UN official who had seen the preliminary report. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/S...;itemNo=743051

[/ QUOTE ]

There is actually a third option, which is more sinister: that the Israeli Military is running without listening to or heeding the political establishment. Reminiscent of the last Lebanese offensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

When Annan backed off on his claims of "deliberate targeting" did he continue to maintain that he got assurances that the area wouldnt be fired on?

Your post before this would make our resident decrier of plagiarism, whiskeytown, roll over in his....wherever he is.

You repeat almost verbatim the second article you link to, in a manner that implied it was original thought. tsk tsk

[ACPlayer]

Are you trying to divert attention from the issue?

Not including the link the first time was an oversight.

Now back to the meat:

I have not seen any reports of him backing off from that statement. I have no doubt that the UN had contacted and got assurances from the Israeli's regarding their people's safety. Just as they have recd assurances regarding humanitarian convoys. SOP.

They were also assured during that day that they would not be attacked.

So, which of my choices is it: a) incompetent (dont know how to aim precision quided weaponry) b) insubordinate (disregarding their military commanders orders or c) the military commanders not listening to the PM's office.

Feel free to add other, credible, choices.