Ftp stole my money

[PokerBob]

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seriously.
he posts and then EVERYTIME he insta-edits them.

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and they are still riddled with mistakes.

[phish]

I must be a real moron, cause I still don't know how you guys can tell that he edits his posts.

But then again, until a couple of days ago, I didn't even realize that I had a personal mail box here, and had messages in there dating back a couple of years.

So to anyone who sent me a message and I didn't respond, it wasn't cause I'm rude. It's just cause I'm stupid.

[suzzer99]

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I don't care what any of you say, maybe one of these days they will do the same crap to you and you won't be laughing but wishing you had beleived me. They haven't provided 1 shred of evidence of the accusations they made about me and yet you beleive them? Ya your a bunch of very smart individuals. If a US regulated gambling establishment ever did this they would of lost their licenses for atleast the part they kept me in suspense for 2 1/2 months only to tell me they are taking my money without any further explanation. So beleive what you want I won't lose any sleep over it, but I want Ftpdoug to post something that actually proves Im guilty of what Im being accused off, anything at all not just say I am.

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If it happened to me, I know I'd remember something more than zero details of the incidents in question. Also, and this isn't necessarily you're fault, but as an active member of the online poker community *before* I got the shaft from FTP, I'd have a crapload more credibility.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

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Eric,

Demand they provide the entire hand histories for your two accounts. Host them somewhere and 2+2 can look over them.

Until Full Tilt does this I'm not satisfied with their word.

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Ditto... at this point I'll buy into the fact that either Eric is moron or a thief... but I would like to see FACTS, Hand-Histories, or examples...

So far it's just been hyperbole by both Doug and Eric.

[suzzer99]

That's because Eric is too smart to claim one thing one way or another, be proven wrong by a piece of evidence, and have his credibility officially destroyed. Eric needs to come forward with some details of the incidents in question before FTP is obligated to anything IMO. He can't just keep pleading the 5th.

[Gotmilk]

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I think any player who has money siezed should have the right to demand all the hand histories they played so they can make a defense.

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Absolutely.


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I agree with that 100 percent. My original point was that we, (meaning 2+2] don't need to see them.

If Greg wants to post them if he gets them, fine (but please get a hand converter). FTP should not ever do that because of the point Bob made about teaching cheaters, and for other players privacy.

Let's say hypothetically[sp.] that Greg is right. I still think the system works, albeit way too slowly and secretativly.

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While it may be true that WE don't need to see them, it is apparent that some independant 3rd party be able to see them and adjudicate. There is a complete lack of any kind of strong and effective player advocacy/avenue of recourse in these types of disputes, and until something is established to fill that void, I believe it is our responsibility to defend any player dispute to the bitter end. And that bitter end is indisputable proof that the player cheated. FTP is run far too shoddily to take their word on face, and I suspect that Doug doesn't even have access to the hand histories, that he only has access to someone from the fraud department who told him what happened, which of course is not enough evidence.

That said, I appreciate Doug's presence on the board and understand he is handling this to the best of his abilities. I also believe him, and believe that Eric is a huge favorite to have cheated. But not huge enough that he deserves to be slammed by many of the players that should be defending him now, and waiting to slam him until the evidence comes in.

And to those who say posting the hand histories would divulge information on their fraud detection, I cry BS. Posting a hand or two with obvious chip dumping would not reveal anything. And if they have an algorithm that can pick out highly complex patterns of chip dumping, it needs to be peer reviewed to prevent unfairness.

[ericjones]

Once again how does posting handhistorys jeapordize their investigation or teach me How to further defraud their site can anyone explain?

[suzzer99]

What about FTP Doug showing the evidence to Mike Haven? I'm pretty sure this will never happen as FT seems to be completely washing their hands of everything and just wants this to go away. Also I have a feeling FTPDoug has used up all his brownie points with the FT fraud department for a while. But if Mike says, "yeah I looked at the evidence and it's solid", I think that would satisfy just about everyone here, no?

[MicroBob]

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I must be a real moron, cause I still don't know how you guys can tell that he edits his posts.

But then again, until a couple of days ago, I didn't even realize that I had a personal mail box here, and had messages in there dating back a couple of years.

So to anyone who sent me a message and I didn't respond, it wasn't cause I'm rude. It's just cause I'm stupid.

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the part at the bottom of the post that says, "edited by EricJones" kind of gives it away.

[MarkGreb]

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To get answers out of Ftdoug.

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Hey!! You forgot to edit!!