tell me what you think of splitting 'a&e' into a separate forum

[Case Closed]

My problem is that I think the A&E forum will end up just being a bunch of people telling me that I need to take "film 101" because I don't get a movie. And if this happens I am sure a lot of people will just ignore this forum.

But, mat has said that there can still be discussion of of movies and stuff in OOT. (Where people can discuss movies and televison with a group of people who don't assume they are better than another person because of their tastes in entertainment.) Although I seriously doubt the mods will allow that to happen. I think this will just end up being a huge pain in the ass.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
I made a case early on in this thread that if you separate them out, A&E would become a significant forum because more people would be posting A&E stuff, becuase it wouldn't tend to get insta-flushed, and people currently turned off by OOT would like it.

Anyone want to argue those ones?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you are the one making the argument, you should have some sense of how to back up your claims. A few significant things to consider:
1) quantify the number of people who are "turned off" by OOT
2) quantify the number of those people who would then turn to an A&E forum

After you do that, then look at potential negative consequences - such as:
3) quantify the potential detrimental affect of an A&E forum on OOT - i.e. will an A&E forum cannibalize OOT to such an extent that the total number of users (or total hours spent on twoplustwo, or whatever number twoplustwo looks at to determine that the numbers are good) decreases.
4) do the number of people who would be turned on by an A&E forum outweigh the number of people turned off by it (basically a rephrasing of number 2)
5) will yet another forum make the site, which has usability issues to begin with, create an even more difficult to navigate interface.



If you can't, at the very least, come up with decent numbers for 1 and 2 then it isn't a good plan.

[Nicholasp27]

i don't wanna see posters saying m**ies or tele***on or b**ks in here like u see with p****r

[El Diablo]

katy: It doesn't really matter that content would be "allowed" in both places. In fact, spreading general A&E content across both forums would probably be a really bad idea in terms of both gaining critical mass in the new forum and maintaining critical mass in this one.

db: Movies that people are interested in discussing get discussed. Reviews about movies people don't care about disappear pretty quickly. That is not unique to reviews, it's the nature of discussion forums. If I want to have a discussion about some topic that appeals to and benefits from a wide audience, I'll post it here. If I want more detailed discussion about a niche topic, I go to a specific niche forum. Trying to make 2+2 a home for discussion of obscure or old films doesn't make sense to me.

eb: 2+2 is expert in matters of poker, not forums and online businesses. Because of that, some missteps are to be expected. I have explained in prior posts why I believe this would be a big one if their goal is maximizing traffic. I think many who have experience with high traffic online sites would agree w/ my explanations.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I made a case early on in this thread that if you separate them out, A&E would become a significant forum because more people would be posting A&E stuff, becuase it wouldn't tend to get insta-flushed, and people currently turned off by OOT would like it.

Anyone want to argue those ones?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I already answered this 1 page ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

DB - you know I love you man, but I just don't see that many current OOT posters caring that much about this topic. You're right in that "well-written review" or "good review" is not correlated with traffic and views. This criteria is also highly subjective. For example, I remember one time P. Dirty wrote what I thought was an *excellent* review of Happy Gilmore. I'm sure more "filmie" people might disagree.

And, as discussed ad nauseum in this thread, it's not the quality of the review, it's the topicality which captures people's interests (hence 2 long threads on V for Vendetta).

It seems that OOT generates enough traffic, with enough users interested in A&E (that would be everyone) that a post on A&E will be judged fairly and always have a chance to not get "flushed".

My reasons on how a separate A&E forum would overall diminish traffic to 2+2 are stated above in numerous posts.

Respectfully,
-Al

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
Since you are the one making the argument, you should have some sense of how to back up your claims. A few significant things to consider:
1) quantify the number of people who are "turned off" by OOT
2) quantify the number of those people who would then turn to an A&E forum

After you do that, then look at potential negative consequences - such as:
3) quantify the potential detrimental affect of an A&E forum on OOT - i.e. will an A&E forum cannibalize OOT to such an extent that the total number of users (or total hours spent on twoplustwo, or whatever number twoplustwo looks at to determine that the numbers are good) decreases.
4) do the number of people who would be turned on by an A&E forum outweigh the number of people turned off by it (basically a rephrasing of number 2)
5) will yet another forum make the site, which has usability issues to begin with, create an even more difficult to navigate interface.


If you can't, at the very least, come up with decent numbers for 1 and 2 then it isn't a good plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

You construct a ridiculous argument by asking for information I can't possibly have, and claiming you win when I can't provide it...

Or let's put it this way...

I'll ask my magic mirror for the figures when it's not busy.

Aww, sorry, it's gonna be tied up today, can you ask yours instead?

I say it's a good plan till your magic mirror says otherwise. If you can't produce them, I believe I win!

[El Diablo]

db,

A&E would be a popular forum, I'm sure. However, for the reasons I've explained a few times, there's a very big chance it would result in a substantial decrease in total 2+2 non-poker traffic.

Note that every time there's a split (Politics, Sports, etc), a good chunk of people who used to be involved in those discussions are no longer involved in them. The same would happen for A&E.

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]

I'll ask my magic mirror for the figures when it's not busy.

Aww, sorry, it's gonna be tied up today, can you ask yours instead?


[/ QUOTE ]

i'd loan you mine, db, but i broke it last night after losing to a 2-outer

[diebitter]

Okay, let's get it clear what's being proposed, to my mind.

OOT stays as is.

A separate entertainment forum springs up.

You can post what you like about entertainment in either. I suggest OOT stay on its own turf and don't go in Entertainment, simple as that.

I for one got tired long ago of posting reviews in OOT to see em sink (yada yada Kingpin etc etc) and said nothing, just cut back the reviewing severely. I posit that a ton of people cut back or don't bother because of the flushing effect

But once someone started the discussion, I made a case for it. I think my points have been fair, and they've been argued back fairly, so I feel this has been a worthwhile discussion personally.

But still...I would welcome a new forum for music, TV, films, books. And if it doesn't happen, fine, no problem. I'll do the odd review, roll my eyes when some asshat whines about how lame OOT has got with its film reviews, but I'll be cool.


But do some of you guys think I'm alone among posters in wanting and welcoming such a forum?

If you think so, then what are you guys worrying about?

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the best thing going for OOT is the sense of community


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Each forum has its own feel and community, and OOT's has varied a lot, but it's got a decent feel to it despite its worst parts.