New Fight Question

[El Diablo]

JK,

Good response. While I still believe UFC guy has a significant edge, statements like "For instance which fighter would be more likely to seize the fleeting opportunity to bite deeply into the other's throat like an animal?" are definitely valid considerations to take into account.

[dknightx]

JK,

good post ... but i think we may be straying away from david's original intent. In this hypothetical situation, how experienced is the SEAL in h2h combat? In my response, I was assuming that the "best" SEAL only had the h2h training he received as part of the SEAL training regiment. If this is the case, then his skills in h2h combat will pale in comparison to the UFC fighter, thus, his mental edge over the oponent will not be as effective. (plus UFC fighters are no pansies either).

If we are talking about 2 equally skilled fighters, one being UFC and one SEAL, then yeah, i'd take the SEAL no problem, but most SEALs have very little h2h training, and the ones that do have more, do so because they learn OUTSIDE of training (actually a lot of SEALs take martial arts classes outside of their regular training).

Finally, most SEALs do not have experience using h2h combat in REAL combat situations. As i stated in my previous post, most h2h training during BUD/S and SQT is learning how to disarm and control a person.

[ClaudCunningham]

Im guessing that you have NEVER been a Navy seal or trained to be one!!!! They'd tear a UFC guy up!!!
Throw in a Mossad operative, and everyone on the list is TOAST

[pon]

seriously
what is wrong with u guys picking seals? this is not a movie.
geez. I wont even make arguments. can't believe this got so long.

[El Diablo]

d,

"In my response, I was assuming that the "best" SEAL only had the h2h training he received as part of the SEAL training regiment."

It's very common for Special Forces guys to go through extensive additional martial arts training, both via official training and on their own.

However, for reasons discussed earlier in this thread, it's highly unlikely that training would be on par with the skill levels of top UFC guys.

[Colm]

Hi all. I need to find the thread on the mixed martial arts forum I frequent (as a training partner and trainer of a few mma fighters) about how poker is 'totally luck'. I assure you, it's as bad as it sounds. Let me tell you that this thread is the same thing, except way worse, about fighting. I should post the links of both of these threads on each respective forum. I honestly cannot believe how clueless most of you are, so I had to log in to comment. The answer is the mma fighter. And no, it isn't close.

[Dementia]

[ QUOTE ]
It's very common for Special Forces guys to go through extensive additional martial arts training, both via official training and on their own.

However, for reasons discussed earlier in this thread, it's highly unlikely that training would be on par with the skill levels of top UFC guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the guys like Jack Bauer? Trained to kill by any means including their hands, privy to top secret techniques and many different expert methods of pain enforcement, surely a man who has employed these tactics to survive will be the favorite when put in a position where he needs to do it again. You're all focusing on the best of the best UFC fighters training, the specific fighting skills, but are distracted by all of the other tactics SEALs must learn. It's been established that the SEAL selected would be the worlds most accomplished, and to me that translates to the relevant experience and execution needed to win this deathmatch.

The dominant UFC fighter may have been pummeled lots in his matches, but has he ever had to endure pain like some of the most decorated military? Has he been physically tortured, electrocuted, carved into? There are some suggesting the threshold for pain is much higher in a paid fighter, that is just ridiculous. We are not talking about the run of the mill military man, we are talking about the WORLDS most SAVVY killing machine and hand to hand soldier in the entire [censored] country, not a god-damned athlete who fights for a cozy living, man.

[JasonK]

[ QUOTE ]
What about the guys like Jack Bauer?

[/ QUOTE ]

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing so hard at you.

[gusmahler]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree for the most part and think that especially applies to regular fighters and even to your typical pro. But with the very best in the world it doesn't necessarily have to work that way. If the best boxer in the world just happens to be a more gifted natural athlete (not unlikely), he might be able to avoid getting taken down and manage to KO the grappler before a takedown occurs.


[/ QUOTE ]

The number of strikers who moved to MMA and is able to regularly avoid takedowns can be counted one finger (Cro Cop). And it took him YEARS of training to become that adept at takedown avoidance.

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
JK,

good post ... but i think we may be straying away from david's original intent. In this hypothetical situation, how experienced is the SEAL in h2h combat? In my response, I was assuming that the "best" SEAL only had the h2h training he received as part of the SEAL training regiment. If this is the case, then his skills in h2h combat will pale in comparison to the UFC fighter, thus, his mental edge over the oponent will not be as effective. (plus UFC fighters are no pansies either).

If we are talking about 2 equally skilled fighters, one being UFC and one SEAL, then yeah, i'd take the SEAL no problem, but most SEALs have very little h2h training, and the ones that do have more, do so because they learn OUTSIDE of training (actually a lot of SEALs take martial arts classes outside of their regular training).

Finally, most SEALs do not have experience using h2h combat in REAL combat situations. As i stated in my previous post, most h2h training during BUD/S and SQT is learning how to disarm and control a person.

[/ QUOTE ]

While Mr. Sklansky did not specify such, I inserted a "presumed" qualification earlier in my posts for the top SEAL fighter as having had life-or-death combat experience. Maybe I was not justified in doing so but I feel it was a reasonable assumption that the top fighting SEAL would have had such experience. This has been a very lengthy thread and it is easy to not remember everything someone has written in the maze of posts and replies. I was arguing from the standpoint that the top fighting SEAL's real life-or-death combat experience would help offset the top UFCers other advantages (and that Octagon-style fighting is not exactly life-or-death optimized anyway). A familiarity with having been being in life-or-death performance situations versus not having been in them before really is pretty likely to mean something.

Whether it would offset enough those other advantages the UFCer hasadvantages is something I cannot well judge and therefore I just put the top SEAL and the top UFCer in the highest category (along with maybe the top Asian Muay Thai fighter, since Asian Muay Thai is a more brutal and realistic competition than other martial arts contests, more so even than boxing, or than kickboxing with protective gear as practiced in the West).

Later someone brought up the point about the caliber of athlete top boxers are, and that caused me to reconsider somewhat since someone like Muhammad Ali was nearly in a class by himself for quite a while. A lot of these speculations are unclear, and I don't think someone as enormously talented as Ali could be solidly ruled out against any UFCer. So I'd still generally put boxers down lower than the top tier as far as no-holds-barred (because I do favor the grappler's style over striking) but when you get to the creme de la creme of individual talents it again becomes more uncertain because at some level, things like talent, speed, reflexes, coordination and toughness can surpass style and technique. Heck speed alone could overcome technique at some point if someone were truly immensely faster than another contestant. We don't usually see such mismatches because humans are not as different from each other as, say, animals are from humans, but you must know what I'm saying. At some point the superior athlete is just superior.