The state of Notre Dame football.

[Bigdaddydvo]

LOL OMG ND is so bad this year LOL

I've rehashed at least a dozen times in this thread why ND has pretty much fielded their worst team ever this year (with responsibility going to both Ty and Charlie in varying degrees). So there's no sense in trying to explain it anymore. I might as well thus talk [censored] about the only area I can with regards to ND this year...the phenomenal 2008 recruiting class.

On the heels of the commitment of 5 star WR Michael Floyd, the Irish received a verbal from Jonus Gray, whom Rivals ranks as the #3 RB prospect in the nation. This brings the #1 ranked class in the nation up to 21 recruits.

2008 will be the pivotal year for the Irish. CW will have 2 top ten classes and one top ranked class to coach. Expect a meteoric improvement next year; without one next year and in 2009, CW will almost certainly be looking for another job.

[damaniac]

Nice, but a couple of things:

1) Is it consensus that this class will still be #1 come Signing Day? 21 commits is a ton right now, most teams still have several spots left, and rankings reflect what you have locked up, so I would assume it is likely to drop a bit. How much? I assume still Top Ten.

2) Of course, we can see some of the weaknesses now in those ratings. ND doesn't have an SEC problem (where a lot of the kids who are committed and even signed wind up not making it to campus, but rankings never reflect this), but it does currently have a 4* defection problem. What have they lost now, 4 4*'s from one class? That is not normal attrition. Not a good sign.

3) You're standing strong in the face of a horrible season and I commend you for it. But c'mon, this is the epic failure of an elite program, of course we're going to revel in it. If Michigan or USC started out this bad (with, as I must repeat, a once-a-decade-bad offense, literally), you would be unable to contain yourself. So let us have our fun.

Anyway, whoever started an ND thread had to know this would happen. This is one reason I very much wanted to create a Big Ten thread rather than a Michigan thread, so if things went south there wouldn't be a magnet drawing people in to mock us. I wasn't expecting things to go bad so fast though.

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]


1) Is it consensus that this class will still be #1 come Signing Day? 21 commits is a ton right now, most teams still have several spots left, and rankings reflect what you have locked up, so I would assume it is likely to drop a bit. How much? I assume still Top Ten.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course nothing is in stone yet, but I'd say we're definitely in the driver's seat to lock up the the nation's best class. The Irish are looking for maybe 2-3 more guys, possibly another OL, WR, or even RB. The key will be hanging onto the guys who have already committed. Last year ND had easily a Top 5 class when 3 late defections dropped it to 8 (i.e. DE Justin Tratou to Florida, who's logging some quality minutes this year). I think by virtue of just hanging onto the guys we have this will easily be a Top 3 class.

[ QUOTE ]

2) Of course, we can see some of the weaknesses now in those ratings. ND doesn't have an SEC problem (where a lot of the kids who are committed and even signed wind up not making it to campus, but rankings never reflect this), but it does currently have a 4* defection problem. What have they lost now, 4 4*'s from one class? That is not normal attrition. Not a good sign.


[/ QUOTE ]
A great point, and it absolutely highlights the importance of an elite program maintaining depth. A point lost on ND's critics was that Ty's last two years of recruiting not only brought in average players, but too few of them. I make the point that ND had the fewest returning lettermen this year. Depth enables a team to weather normal attrition, injuries, and transfers. More importantly, it forces guys to compete for playing time. I think a major issue with Notre Dame's now much maligned Spring and Fall training camps is that the starting players didn't face much competition to win their positions...a harsh indictment of the team's lack of depth. I want to say that even after this class fills up, the Irish will still have upwards of ten unused scholarships...unacceptable for an elite program with the already tight 85 scholarship limit.

[ QUOTE ]

3) You're standing strong in the face of a horrible season and I commend you for it. But c'mon, this is the epic failure of an elite program, of course we're going to revel in it. If Michigan or USC started out this bad (with, as I must repeat, a once-a-decade-bad offense, literally), you would be unable to contain yourself. So let us have our fun.


[/ QUOTE ]

What can I say, hope springs eternal. I'm willing to concede what delusional domer types won't...ND has not had an elite program since 1993. Sporadic successes during the Davie/Willingham era don't hide the definte downward trend of the program the last 15 years. In his first two years, CW appears to have stopped the bleeding, but 2007 seems to be 15 years of general football mediocrity coming to a head.

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, whoever started an ND thread had to know this would happen. This is one reason I very much wanted to create a Big Ten thread rather than a Michigan thread, so if things went south there wouldn't be a magnet drawing people in to mock us. I wasn't expecting things to go bad so fast though.

[/ QUOTE ]

In fairness, this thread started as a result of this season's unprecedented troubles. So the nukings from Irish haters come with the territory. I still have a dim hope that people will offer some meaningful analysis with the state of the program and its future (from Irish fans or haters...doesn't matter)

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
Ty's last two years of recruiting not only brought in average players, but too few of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ty's last full year of recruiting in 2004 had the same number of recruits (18) as Weis's 2007.

[maxtower]

I just can't wait for NBC to drop Notre Dame, and then they'll come crawling to the Big Ten, who hopefully will just send them packing.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
I just can't wait for NBC to drop Notre Dame, and then they'll come crawling to the Big Ten, who hopefully will just send them packing.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...Notre Dame is still so far away from being dropped by NBC that this point is ridic

[MyTurn2Raise]

just a note: Ty's last recruiting class was #32
quit assigning the blame to Ty for Charlie's #40 recruting class

If Ty had the administration behind him like Charlie does now, his classes would've been better. Don't fool yourselves, the requirements have been lowered. ND found out that Wins >> Grades.

all: I hope you are realizing that ND's recruiting class routinely gets overrated just like their football team. They have been good the last few years, but not that good. In reality, they probably end that good as half the SEC teams way up there fall down when player after player gets shot down over academics despite the SEC being loosey-goosey with academic requirements.

[JaredL]

BigDaddy,

Given that Notre Dame got completely destroyed by Georgia Tech, a team that they solidly outrecruited each of the last 5 years, what makes you think this class won't under-develop and under-perform?

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]
BigDaddy,

Given that Notre Dame got completely destroyed by Georgia Tech, a team that they solidly outrecruited each of the last 5 years, what makes you think this class won't under-develop and under-perform?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since Charlie Weis seems to be so infallible, maybe he will end up Pope at the end of his contract?

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]
just a note: Ty's last recruiting class was #32
quit assigning the blame to Ty for Charlie's #40 recruting class



[/ QUOTE ]

OK, w/respect to the current senior class (the one you say is #32), it consisted of 17 players only 3 of which are still around and making an impact (Lambert, Brown and Crum). Four guys are on the team but only have roles on the scout team (Jabbie, Ferrine, Vernaglia, Bragg). TEN guys have left the team completely.

7 seniors. What other school in D1 that has such a small senior class?

Did the 2005 class suffer a bit because Weis stayed an extra month in New England? Possibly. But the majority of the responsibility is with Ty. Recruting classes are only finalized in the last month...if you're waiting that long to get anything more than a final one-sie/two-sie player you haven't put in the work you've needed. Right now the Irish have 21 commitments and it's not even November yet (they had 17-18 before the season began, which is where the 2005 class topped out). Assigning Weis the blame for that awful class is like blaming a relief pitcher for an opponent scoring when the starter left the bases loaded.