Durrr in process of losing 60k+ in a chess bet.. good month for raptor

[Grisgra]

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durrr isn't 1100-1200. I am very sensitive to people overrating others because I have had a lot of students in my old schools who actually were 1100-1200. At the moment durrrr is probably in the 900-1050 range.

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A 1000 player playing an IM with rook odds . . . that's just so, so sick. In my pseudo-prime I was an 1800 player, and could probably beat a 1000 player with those odds. I mean, a 1000 player is at the level of maybe not hanging random material, and that's about it.

So wrong. Props to raptor.

[MicroBob]

grisgra - When I was in the 1400ish range and in my prime I think I might be close to the 50/50-ish range against him so I definitely think you would be a favorite as an 1800 player.
I might fall shy of 50/50 but I definitely believe I could win a few games out of 10 against him.
Especially if he isn't able to figure out that trading-down in material is to his advantage and definitely with faster time-controls as I am at least semi-comfortable playing blitz.

And remember, he's not even really a 1000 player. We're just estimating.

If you read Curtains article about it:
- Raptor had to set up an 'en passant' position and ask if it was okay to capture there.
- There was no touch-move. He was allowed to take back any move that he made as long as he had yet to hit the clock.
It sounded like he was able to take advantage of this a couple times and see that a move he was about to make was a blunder and make a correction.

With regular touch-move rules there's a very good chance he would have lost more quickly and decisively.

- He also would not lose if he went over on time. He would just have to pay more per minute in the bet.


So under REAL rules where he wouldn't get that silly 'no touch-move' nonsense and actually would lose if his flag fell I would expect players like you, me and Curtains to have a slightly greater advantage since we are used to playing with these rules and he isn't.

Obviously the flagfall rule becomes even more important if you set it up as a G/10 or less.

[curtains]

btw I had to throw in some propoganda because of all the young kids who read the site. Mainly the stuff about how randomly wagering 50k isn't a good idea. Durrrr was a complete gentleman who took a risk that didn't work out, however as his WSOP backing record shows, a lot of his risks do work out. I didn't want to slight him at all, I just knew the USCF, a non profit organization which has a huge scholastic membership, couldn't put this article online if it glorified gambling too much.

[curtains]

I would not take the bet without a queen. I also wouldn't be confident without a rook and minor piece. Maybe I'd win around 50-60% there, I honestly don't know. I just felt that a rook I was a tremendous favorite and of course since 50k isn't chump change to raptor (at least until everyone who he staked in WSOP won 50000 million for him), I didn't want to have him make a bet that I wasn't extremely confident about.

[adanthar]

yeah, I followed the whole thing and it was hilarious. at my prime, I was ranked 1700-odd on yahoo chess (lol) and would probably -as a sheer guess from reading the game summary- only win maybe 3/4 against curtains with rook odds today. durrr had no chance from the start. nice bet raptor.

also, is this the biggest chess game of the year, you think?

[Grisgra]

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yeah, I followed the whole thing and it was hilarious. at my prime, I was ranked 1700-odd on yahoo chess (lol) and would probably -as a sheer guess from reading the game summary- only win maybe 3/4 against curtains with rook odds today.

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lol, I'll take curtains and give you 2:1 that you don't win 3/4 games against him getting rook odds [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

I don't think people realize just how strong players of his calibur are. I'm sure that against a 1700'ish player he could clog up the board, win a couple of pawns or the exchange while some minor material is being traded, and then apply enough pressure to at least get a draw 50% of the time, and probably a win 30%+ of the time.

Use of that extra rook often doesn't come into play until the end of the middle game, after some files have been cleared/pieces have been traded -- up until that point you get to bash heads with a 2600 player with a full bag of tricks, and more than capable of mating you while more than half of your material is still on the board.

[Lalu]

"I don't think people realize just how strong players of his caliber are. I'm sure that against a 1700'ish player he could clog up the board, win a couple of pawns or the exchange while some minor material is being traded, and then apply enough pressure to at least get a draw 50% of the time, and probably a win 30%+ of the time."


I don't think that's true at all, it might not be that hard to put pressure on a weaker player when you are starting on equal footing, but when you are a rook in arrears to begin with, it's not that simple. Applying pressure to win a couple of pawns is certainly not going to overcome the rook you are behind even if it were. Granted I'm not a 1700 player anymore, but I'm quite sure when I was, I would have beaten curtains at his present strength 95%+ of the time with rook odds.


"Use of that extra rook often doesn't come into play until the end of the middle game, after some files have been cleared/pieces have been traded."


That's completely wrong, and I frankly can't comprehend how you could even begin to think that's true even if you're a fair beginner at chess. The concepts of opening, middlegame, and endgame can hardly even be used in such a game, rook odds skew the game far too much to properly define what those really mean in an odds game.

[effang]

Can somebody provide Curtain's rating/site? Would be nice to wiki him and see his history.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
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yeah, I followed the whole thing and it was hilarious. at my prime, I was ranked 1700-odd on yahoo chess (lol) and would probably -as a sheer guess from reading the game summary- only win maybe 3/4 against curtains with rook odds today.

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lol, I'll take curtains and give you 2:1 that you don't win 3/4 games against him getting rook odds [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

I don't think people realize just how strong players of his calibur are. I'm sure that against a 1700'ish player he could clog up the board, win a couple of pawns or the exchange while some minor material is being traded, and then apply enough pressure to at least get a draw 50% of the time, and probably a win 30%+ of the time.

Use of that extra rook often doesn't come into play until the end of the middle game, after some files have been cleared/pieces have been traded -- up until that point you get to bash heads with a 2600 player with a full bag of tricks, and more than capable of mating you while more than half of your material is still on the board.

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1700 on yahoo means like anywhere from 800-1300 in real life.

[curtains]

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"I don't think people realize just how strong players of his caliber are. I'm sure that against a 1700'ish player he could clog up the board, win a couple of pawns or the exchange while some minor material is being traded, and then apply enough pressure to at least get a draw 50% of the time, and probably a win 30%+ of the time."


I don't think that's true at all, it might not be that hard to put pressure on a weaker player when you are starting on equal footing, but when you are a rook in arrears to begin with, it's not that simple. Applying pressure to win a couple of pawns is certainly not going to overcome the rook you are behind even if it were. Granted I'm not a 1700 player anymore, but I'm quite sure when I was, I would have beaten curtains at his present strength 95%+ of the time with rook odds.


"Use of that extra rook often doesn't come into play until the end of the middle game, after some files have been cleared/pieces have been traded."


That's completely wrong, and I frankly can't comprehend how you could even begin to think that's true even if you're a fair beginner at chess. The concepts of opening, middlegame, and endgame can hardly even be used in such a game, rook odds skew the game far too much to properly define what those really mean in an odds game.

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Ok but adanthar is using his yahoo rating which is completely meaningless. This is why there are so many people who think they are better than they aer, because they believe these random Internet chess sites to have somewhat accurate ratings. You can easily be 1700 and actually play at about a 1000-1100 level.

Honestly if you've never played a real chess tournament, its 95+% likely that you are gigantic underdog against me if I give you rook odds.