2006 - 2007 NBA Season Discussion Thread

[Assani Fisher]

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All this said, I think the 90s Bulls would get KILLED by any 80s champion. Seriously, would they have a chance against Magic's Lakers or Larry's Celtics? No.

[/ QUOTE ] Bulls 96-98 should beat most of these teams, or at the very least, all series would go to 7.

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I think I agree. I at least disagree that they would get killed. They would be tough series.

I think Assani has a point about athleticism in general. However, Broussard of ESPN made that argument that athletics is why the US should always win world competitions, because we have the best athletes. That should make up for the small skill differential. We saw how that goes.

I also think the 80s Lakers squad was pretty damn athletic. 80s Celtics... not so much. Yet they still pulled out 3 titles and fought tough series vs. the Lakers. They could probably do the same with the Bulls, as long as they're playing under 80s reffing standards (otherwise a ton of people get ejected when McHale clothelines somebody). It'd be an entertaining series, that's for sure.


PS: Assani, your J-Will argument as an edge for Miami is really, really funny. Sure, he's a better "pure point" than any Bulls player, but he's not even that great. Like TSC said, the bulls didn't need a point. They had MJ and Pippen. They just needed a guy to hit open jump shots/3s (Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr), or a solid player who played great D (Harper). Its not even close.

We're also forgetting Kukoc, who was better in his prime than any non-Wade, non-Shaq player on the Heat.

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I'm a big time JWill fan, so maybe I'm biased....

but hes developed into a damn good PG. When he first came into the league, he had a ton of talent(#7 overall pick remember) but he was wild. Hes totally mellowed down, and even led the league in assist to turnover ratio for a year or two. Hes a veteran, makes good decisions, can knock down the open shot, and has great court vision. Offensively he is everything you could ever want out of a PG imo.

[anatta]

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MJ is not as big of an advantage of Wade as you're making it out to be

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I couldn't disagree more, Jordan has a will to win, Jordan bigger, jumps higher, equally quick, more of a leader, the greatest defensive player ever, toughest player during games and practice. A leader. Pippen and Jordan would wear Wade out on both sides of the court.

Also, Cooper would guard Wade, Kareem would put up better numbers than Shaq. Magic's craps are bigger and better than J Will. Byron Scott was a better shooter than anyone on the Heat. Oh and James friggin' Worthy. (and I'm a Celtic Fan! Believe me, if Dirk can almost beat the Heat, Bird, McHale, and Parish would chew them up. DJ guards Wade.)

[Assani Fisher]

Wade doesn't have a will to win?

In his rookie year he took a very average team to the second round of the playoffs and hit a huge game winning shot in the process. In his second year they made the third round....in the second round that year they played the whole serious without Shaq and Wade carried a bunch of very average players to a sweep. Last year, in just his third year, Dwyane Wade was the Finals MVP as his team won it all.

Now I understand that MJ has done it longer than Wade has, so I'm definitely not putting him in his class just yet. But I'm just not understanding what "will to win" you're not seeing in Wade.

[Assani Fisher]

And this whole "Jordan is more of a leader than Wade" is exactly what I'm talking about when I speak of us ignoring the faults of our heroes of the past and making them out to be perfect.

In his younger years, Jordan was widely critisized for being selfish and not a team player.

In the early 90s Jordan got in a huge fist fight with Steve Kerr.

There has always been a lot of animosity between Jordan and Pippen. Post retirement, whenever you hear Pippen speaking of Jordan theres almost always a hint of disdain in his voice. I obviously don't know the whole story here.

Also, Jordan was widely critisized for gambling at casinos even during the season when he should be getting rest and preparing for the next game(its not like theres many days off in between games).

[Assani Fisher]

As a whole, I'm just very much against this "the NBA just isn't like it used to be" way of thinking. I'll be the first to admit that the NBA product may not be as exciting as the "no defense/fast break" style of the 80s. However with the entire world now playing basketball very competitively and the athletes of today even better than 20 years ago, the level of play has only gotten better.

[anatta]

Whether against Georgetown or the Jazz, with the Flu, whatever, Jordan was clutch. Didn't Wade brick some crucial free throws? If Jordan were playing right now for the undermaned heat, he would have 60 like he put on the Celtics early in his playoff career when it was just he and a bunch of scrubs. Wade is a nice talented kid, but c'mon man, Jordan was bigger than the game, Babe Ruth.

Wade is Sweet Pea, Jordan is Muhammad Ali.

[Assani Fisher]

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Whether against Georgetown or the Jazz, with the Flu, whatever, Jordan was clutch. Didn't Wade brick some crucial free throws? If Jordan were playing right now for the undermaned heat, he would have 60 like he put on the Celtics early in his playoff career when it was just he and a bunch of scrubs. Wade is a nice talented kid, but c'mon man, Jordan was bigger than the game, Babe Ruth.

Wade is Sweet Pea, Jordan is Muhammad Ali.

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Remember what I said about how we totally forget about their faults and make our heroes out to be perfect? You're totally doing it right now.

MJ didn't win one playoff series in his first 3 years in the league. And you may say that Wade has only had so much more success than MJ early on because Wade has had a better surrounding cast. I won't argue that. But take a look at the roster for the Heat in their 2nd round playoff matchup in 2005(O Neal was injured):

Dwyane Wade
Eddie Jones
Damon Jones
Udonis Haslem
Rasual Butler
Keyon Dooling
Michael Doleac
Christian Laettner
Shandon Anderson
Alonzo Mourning
Malik Allen
Wesley Person
Wang Zhizhi
Steve Smith
Qyntel Woods
Dorell Wright

Wade led that group to a 4 game sweep where the average margin of victory was 9 points(not a huge amount, but its not like they barely eeked out victories either). Think about just how impressive that is for a second! Here you have a second year player, playing against a good team(a top 8 team in the league), playing with a bunch of guys who probably wouldn't win 20 games without Wade, and he leads them to a sweep.

I would definitely say that Jordan had equal surrounding talent as Wade had here, and Wade led them to the conference finals.

In fact, as you may remember, Wade got injured in game 7 of the Conference Finals that year and they lost. If he had played that game, he just might have won the title in only his second year in the league!

[anatta]

Who did they beat?

[Assani Fisher]

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Who did they beat?

[/ QUOTE ]The Washington Wizards:

PG: Larry Hughes
SG: Gilbert Arenas
SF: Jared Jeffries
PF: Antawn Jamison
C: Brendan Haywood
Bench: Etan Thomas, Kwame Brown, Juan Dixon, Steve Blake, Jarvis Hayes

[anatta]

That's a reasonably talented young roster (Arenas, Jamison, and some athletes) and leading the Heat to a sweep with that supporting cast is pretty impressive, especially for a young guy. On the other hand, Jefferies, Jamison, and Haywood aren't exactly Bird, McHale, and Parish. Yes, they played 15 years ago, but this is the best front line ever. And Jordan almost single handedly beat these grown men, these World Champions.

D-Wade is off to a great start. He's freakish in his ability to get off the ground quickly, very acrobatic on the way to the hoop. Just don't sell the old guys short, 6'9'' point guards, Kareem scoring 20 in his 40's, double clutch dunking from the foul line, The Hick From French Lick!