Open letter to Censored

[stabn]

Did you have Evan's permission to post those passages from a PM? Beacuse if you didn't that's super uncool.

[HDPM]

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Did you have Evan's permission to post those passages from a PM? Beacuse if you didn't that's super uncool.

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I get the impression that Clarkmeister understands the implications and is posting anyway; I don't think he is making an unknowing decision.


FWIW I think this whole thing sucks. The best that happens is that posters who can't hurt you stop posting. The worst is that posters who could help you one way or another will stop or will contribute less. Guess which I think will happen.

P.S. Actually the worst thing is that people will get hurt when they don't deserve it. That has probably happened. As far as the forum goes tho...

[DrSavage]

Weak.

[Evan]

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Don't worry Evan, you were definitely one of the 5 or 10 I had in mind

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I know that. It became pretty clear when we exchanged PMs about it a couple days ago.

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Frankly, I feel a bit sorry for you, because I really thought you were a pretty sharp dude, but you've really made yourself look pretty shabby in the last few days.

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I'm sorry that you feel that way. It's really too bad that I could undo a couple years of posting ont his forum and over a year of knowing you with a handful of posts in the last week. I'm sorry that that's what's come of it but I'm not sorry for what I've said. I have treated Elaine the same as (more likely better than) I would treat anyone else on this forum. There are things about my interaction with Elaine that have contributed to my responses to her, some of them were private and I chose to share one with you in a PM. I'm not going to repeat it here because she chose not to make it public and I'm going to respect that. My longwinded point here is that I feel okay about the decisions I've made in regards to her.

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I don't know how you could possibly write:

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I don't think "incessant attacks" really describes how I've treated Elaine.

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and

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Why do I care so much? I don't really care

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and

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I honestly do feel bad about being so rough on Ed's wife

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I don't feel like any of this is public domain, but since they've been posted and people have read them I feel compelled explain myself.

I do not feel like I "incessantly attacked" Elaine. I responded to various threads she started or replied in over the course of her stay in oot, ofter telling her that she made little sense or was being unreasonably inflamitory. I do that with everyone. I am not the nicest guy on 2+2, I am even unecessarily mean sometimes when I vehemently disagree with someone. I am, however, consistant. I would have given no one else different treatment than I gave Elaine. For that you have to at least call me fair. If you dislike me then you dislike me, but disliking specifically those posts is inconsistant.

I continued to post the same way in this and other ATF threads. I even restrained myself from making some posts I wanted to after exchanging PMs with you. I respect you and your opinion and I felt that I had likely gone too far once you told me so, even if I didn't see it myself I was willing to trust you when you said that you did.

If I wanted to "incessantly attack" someone I would have made many more posts in response to them, I would have initiated PMs with them, and I would have been more vulgar and disrupting. I did none of those things to Elaine and I think it's both unfair and inaccurate to say that I attacked her unless you're willing to say that I've attacked many, many posters on this forum.


I told you that I don't care because it is true. You questioned why I care so much about the Elaine drama after she's already left. I responded by explaining that I don't care in the sense that I care about my health, my safety, my family, or even what I have for lunch. I'm only mildly interested because the situation was comical to me. Elaine said some things that I could only respond to with laughter and bewilderment. It was entertaining much in the same way the classic chuddo trainwreck was entertaining. I posted in and followed that thread for quite a while. But I didn't care about it. If that thread disappeared today or tomorrow or 10 minutes after it began, my quality of life would be no less. I was entertained by it in a very cursory. I suspect many, if not most posters had very similar thoughts.


Much like the first point, I was willing to submit to your judgement and accept that I was being overly disrespectful to Ed. You went out of your way to PM me about something that was obviously very important to you, or at least somewhat important. I also think you're a sharp guy and I did not think you'd try to impose your judgement on me unless you really felt it was appropriate. I did exactly that, I didn't make posts that I would have otherwise because of what you said.


I really do hope you don't think too low of me. The rest of this conversation, should you wish to continue it, can hopefully take place in response to the PM I just sent you. Ideally it could have started that way but I wanted to straighten out whatever questions had already been asked in public. Again, Clark, I hope you are not genuinely too mad at me. If we can sort this out I'd be more than pleased, I look forward to talking to you.

[BluffTHIS!]

Cliff Notes:

Clark thinks Evan is a dick and treated Elaine shabbily, and hurt Evan's feelings in saying so, and then Evan explains his actions and expresses remorse over a lost 2+2 friendship.

[kyleb]

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Cliff Notes:

Clark thinks Evan is a dick and treated Elaine shabbily, and hurt Evan's feelings in saying so, and then Evan explains his actions and expresses remorse over a lost 2+2 friendship.

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Clark also divulges PMs without speaking to Evan, because why not.

[PITTM]

for full, wikipedia-like disclosure: The neutrality of this article is disputed.

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Cliff Notes:

Clark thinks Evan is a dick and treated Elaine shabbily, and hurt Evan's feelings in saying so, and then Evan explains his actions and expresses remorse over a lost 2+2 friendship.

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rj

[SackUp]

clark - why would you divulge pms sent to you by evan and publicly say "you feel sorry for him"?

How is this any better than what has gone on in this thread? In the big picture there is not much difference b/w talking crap about someone when they can respond and talking crap when they leave - both instances are often going to be childish, the only difference is if the person is here they are likely to respond with more childish remarks. When the person has left they don't hear the remarks and could probably care less about them.

I agree that this Ed and Elaine commentary should be over, but how have you helped this? Attacking the attackers just prolongs the situation. You know Evan will not back down, nor should he.

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I guaran-fukking-tee that none of you in real life would continue taking shots at the mans fukking WIFE in front of his face like this. You are all pussies of the highest degree.

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I don't see how the above statement is anything but childish and nonsensical. Elaine was a poster on 2+2 - regardless of her relationship to Ed. She was treated and should be treated as any other poster on this board. Does that mean she was treated correctly - not by any means. But I don't see how this correlates with the posters being the pussies in the highest regard just b/c she happens to be married to someone on the site when they would talk about any other posters the same way - the same way you have and do talk about posters to this day - see evan above.

I think you are a little too close to the situation. If you want posters to be treated better, then all posters should be treated better - not just those who you know personally. I don't see how you have worked towards accomplishing that end with these posts. Your post appeared like a childish rant and banter and anyone who does not see that needs to open their eyes. I don't see how you can tell people to grow the fukk up given the posts you have made in this thread. Civility and decorum are marks of maturity - neither of which has been displayed in any of this discourse.

With that said, I usually respect your posts highly and I look forward to your commentary. I also think it is a great loss to the forums to lose Ed. I wish both him and Elaine the best. I also hope the 2+2 community can grow up on the whole (including myself at times who can be fickle and condescending with teh best of them).

[Mat Sklansky]

It was requested by Elaine this thread be deleted.

[stabn]

Pretty huge threads to get rid of with many posts besides elaines. FWIW.