Gun accidents? Guns are dangrous?

[Brainwalter]

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The argument actually being advanced is that gun laws are obeyed at a higher frequency by the law-abiding, and therefore they prevent more defensive uses than offensive ones

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This argument assumes that gun laws somehow prohibit law-abiding citizens from buying a gun, which to my knowledge they don't. A regulation such as a background check will not prohibit a lawful citizen from buying a gun (although it might be a minor inconvenience). Yet these are the type of regulations the NRA and the gun lobby gets all worked up over and fights to defeat.

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We already have background checks, and that's not all people in this thread are advocating.

[pyedog]

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Hopefully not too many handguns make it across the border to Canada. I'd feel safer in Sweden though.

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Doesn't Canada already have more firearms per capita than the US?

BTW, how safe would you feel in Switzerland?

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Yeah I think I heard that too. Canada has a ton of hunters so probably lots of rifles. I'm mainly worried about handguns which are becoming much more common in Toronto and Vancouver. I have no idea where they come from, maybe stores here, but lax gun laws in the US can't help.

I would feel safe in Switzerland. They just don't seem to have that same "gun culture" if that makes sense. The US has a very fervent support for guns due to the oft stated amendment and I think this contributes to a violent society. But it can't be the only factor. Who the hell knows what it is that causes so many more gun deaths in the US.

That is annoying how these amendments are treated as if they can't even be discussed though. They were written so long ago. What if there was an amendment for the right to have slaves? Not many would still be supporting that.

[pvn]

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Don't you realize there's a big difference between distrusting politicians and thinking that the government is planning to overthrow your household?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge



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Politicians are distrusted because they make lots of stupid mistakes, not because they're planning on staging a coup at bkholdem's place.

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Oh, so I be forcibly subjected to the whims of people who make lots of stupid mistakes? Why do you think "taking guns away" is somehow exempt from this category of politician actions?

[revots33]

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and then when the cop explains that "No, you can't becaue your a convicted felon, etc" he says "thank you" and forgets the notion of acquiring a gun?

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He might. At the very least he'll have to work a little harder to get one. I think you overestimate how much the average person knows about where to find illegal guns.

Aside from which, I can still have my own gun to protect my daughter, which I purchased legally from a gun shop. Restricting sales to known felons/stalkers/etc. in no way prevents me from protecting myself or my family with a gun if I choose.

[mosdef]

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On the other hand, if the population is forcibly disarmed, a tiny number of people can *violently* oppress *huge* numbers with very little effort.

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Bad logic. If the population is forcibly disarmed, the powerful force that disarmed the population would by definition be capable of preventing the oppression.

[Brainwalter]

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I would feel safe in Switzerland. They just don't seem to have that same "gun culture" if that makes sense.

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No it doesn't really make sense, they are required to have a fully automatic machine gun in every household.

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That is annoying how these amendments are treated as if they can't even be discussed though. They were written so long ago. What if there was an amendment for the right to have slaves? Not many would still be supporting that.

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You know they are not immutable right? The Constitution can be amended, and has been a couple dozen times. Including to disallow slavery.

But you're right, the Constitution really isn't relevant anymore, we should just ignore it. Oh wait, we do.

[Brainwalter]

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On the other hand, if the population is forcibly disarmed, a tiny number of people can *violently* oppress *huge* numbers with very little effort.

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Bad logic. If the population is forcibly disarmed, the powerful force that disarmed the population would by definition be capable of preventing the oppression.

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And also by definition, no OTHER force could prevent THEM from perpetrating it.

[pvn]

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Yeah I think I heard that too. Canada has a ton of hunters so probably lots of rifles. I'm mainly worried about handguns which are becoming much more common in Toronto and Vancouver. I have no idea where they come from, maybe stores here, but lax gun laws in the US can't help.

I would feel safe in Switzerland. They just don't seem to have that same "gun culture" if that makes sense. The US has a very fervent support for guns due to the oft stated amendment and I think this contributes to a violent society. But it can't be the only factor. Who the hell knows what it is that causes so much more gun deaths in the US.

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I'm comforted to hear that you're advocating massively invasive policy and admit that you don't know what's actually causing the problem that you are intending to resolve with your policy. This looks like a can't-lose proposition to me.

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That is annoying how these amendments are treated as if they can't even be discussed though. They were written so long ago. What if there was an amendment for the right to have slaves? Not many would still be supporting that.

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I haven't seen very many anti-gun-control arguments here that have relied on some words scribbled on some piece of paper. Personally I don't really give a [censored] what the 2nd amendment says.

[John Kilduff]

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By your definition of "interacting" (anything that potentially creates any risk for you), anything anyone does is "interacting" with you: from driving their own car, to having a cookout in their backyard, to even staying home, because it is always possible to contrive some scenario in which something they do indirectly affects you or indirectly places you at risk.

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That is correct.

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That is not "interaction"; it's just the way the world works:

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Yeah, the world works by all of us interacting with each other. pvn doesn't want some of those interactions to "count" in his rules because he doesn't like the consequences of that.

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You might have a good argument if you could show that pvn's purchase of a gun significantly affects your chances for safety

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This is precisely the point. I am not saying that pvn's gun should be taken away because I think there is some impact on me of his owning a gun. I am saying that he doesn't get to decide whether the impact on me is significant enough that it violates my rights. The consequence of letting the person taking the action decide if the action violates someone else's right is that there would end up being NO rights.

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Ok...but for you to be eligible to possibly gain any right to to limit his actions, you can't just assert that you believe his actions endangers your safety significantly (and beyond other normally accepted activities/risks); you have to show convincingly that it does so.

[bkholdem]

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Hopefully not too many handguns make it across the border to Canada. I'd feel safer in Sweden though.

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Doesn't Canada already have more firearms per capita than the US?

BTW, how safe would you feel in Switzerland?

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Yeah I think I heard that too. Canada has a ton of hunters so probably lots of rifles. I'm mainly worried about handguns which are becoming much more common in Toronto and Vancouver. I have no idea where they come from, maybe stores here, but lax gun laws in the US can't help.

I would feel safe in Switzerland. They just don't seem to have that same "gun culture" if that makes sense.

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It seems to me that one main difference is that the government in switzerland encourages gun ownership and engages the citizen in training to use them responsibly. I am all for that culture coming here. Please extend my personal invitation to every swiss you meet to come to the usa for a visit or for life.