Reduce the rake is SCUM

[siegfriedandroy]

i dont understand how he could have no money?? He was still getting paid for those months - he owed me several thousand, along with perhaps several hundred others. This should total to several hundred thousand dollars overall. Where did this money go?

[almostbusto]

[ QUOTE ]
as i tried to do something to help i realized that it is impossible to tidy this mess up without getting banned by party. there is zero way to give people rake back on party poker and that is the only thing that they want.

i agree with them...i wish party allowed it. i think what tim did was very poor business, but that money is gone. he is not making a killing.

just one thing about contract law that hasn't been discussed here. it is not possible to enforce an illegal agreement. tim would argue that party poker disallows rake back, so any agreements you had were unenforceable.

you can not hire a prostitute and then sue her for not putting out. it is illegal (most everywhere) to have sex for money, so you can't enforce a contract for sex for money.

it is illegal to sell drugs, so you can't take a drug dealer to court for selling bad drugs

it is illegal to do rakeback on party poker so you can't take an affiliate to court for not doing it.

does that help? i am not saying he is a good guy, and i am not justifying what he did. it is just reality.

[/ QUOTE ] its not illegal to get rakeback at party though. party does not make laws... its illegal to buy herione, because the government says so, not a public company.

anyway, you are right there are a lot of problems potentially with trying to get a contract like this enforced but you are mistaken on your specific example.

[almostbusto]

just to put in perspective consider this analogy:
A has a product on the market that sells for 7$

A signs a contract with B that A will sell some product to B for 5$ as long as B does not resell it to C for 6$
(this deal makes sense for A because of B's demand curve, he demands a lot of the product at 5$ but almost none at 7$ and it costs 4$ to produce so this deal will in fact benefit both parties.)

B then signs a contract with C that B will sell said product to C for 6$

now no matter what B does, it will be violating a contract. in the case of tim, he violated/is violating his contract with 'C' in feb march april... this is definitely not ok in the law.

the problem might come about if internet gambling is deemed illegal or something in the jurisdiction of where the case is being tried. but in feb in the united states(or almost all of the US), it is not illegal to play on party poker. i am pretty sure of that. though it is fairly murky in some respects i am sure.

regardless this contract isn't a really a gambling contract. we did no wagering with tim or anything, so that part shouldn't be a factor. the only factor MIGHT be if his customers had to do something illegal to get rakeback. which doesn't seem to be true. at least during feb 2006 in the state that i live. i am not a lawyer but this is my understanding of the 'legalities' of the issue.

interestingly, A's contract with B would be considered price discrimination by the justice department in the united states and any third party not getting the cheaper price could sue for triple damages for price discrimination. party isn't selling its product in the US and rakeback and the rake paid to the affiliates are two very seperate products (one you are getting paid for advertising more or less and the other you are getting a discount for being a loyal customer or whatever).

[warsaw]

This was from another thread.

[ QUOTE ]
Hi
Thanks for the email. We have had complaints against this affiliate from
many players. His deal with Party Gaming has been cancelled, because of the
fact that the affiliate was violating the terms and conditions of Party
Gaming Affiliate Agreement.
I would request you not to stop playing at Party Poker. If you have any
queries please don't hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Rohit Prathinidhi

Manager-Affiliate Relations

Party Gaming Marketing (UK) Limited


[/ QUOTE ]

[AAAA]

my guess is that he likes drugs and has spent most of the money. otherwise he would have done the reasonable thing and paid as many players as possible.

usually when someone is caught like this, they pay if they can. that is all i am really saying...i don't know if he has a drug habit, or a mortgage payment that he won't be able to keep up with now that party cut him off.

has anyone asked him what he did with the money?

[Cassidy]

As I see things...

Tim has chosen for whatever reason not to respond to the email messages I have sent him regarding this matter.

Tim, if you are reading this message that I would like to ask:

1. How much money did you receive from Party Poker for games I played in February ?

2. If you did receive payment from Party Poker for games I played in February then why are you witholding the percentage of this payment that you agreed to pay to me when I originally chose you as my affiliate?

Tim, whilst I can understand that you feel aggrieved for losing your status as a Party affiliate I do not feel that it is proper for you to use this as cause for witholding your agreed payment to me.

If you have received payment from Party Poker for games I played in February then I respectfully ask that you honour our agreement and pay me the agreed percentage of that payment.

[SackUp]

[ QUOTE ]
blood out of a turnip comes to mind. it is not in your best interest to continue to look back and try to get money from someone who doesn't have it anymore. the chances of tim having enough money left to pay people is very remote.

the only way to get anything at all is to find a better deal and move forward. you are not going to start some class action suit and get him to pay you. the cost of litigation is way more than the money he ever had!

yes it is sad and bad that he did what he did, but learn from it and try not to make the same mistake again.

[/ QUOTE ]

you seriously need to stop posting on a topic that you are 100% wrong about.

How do you know he doesn't have money? And even if he has no money then he surely has assets we can attack (and yes we could pierce the vail).

You realize that it typically doesn't cost jack to be the plaintiff b/c plaintiff's attorneys work on a contingency fee basis.

[SackUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as i tried to do something to help i realized that it is impossible to tidy this mess up without getting banned by party. there is zero way to give people rake back on party poker and that is the only thing that they want.

i agree with them...i wish party allowed it. i think what tim did was very poor business, but that money is gone. he is not making a killing.

just one thing about contract law that hasn't been discussed here. it is not possible to enforce an illegal agreement. tim would argue that party poker disallows rake back, so any agreements you had were unenforceable.

you can not hire a prostitute and then sue her for not putting out. it is illegal (most everywhere) to have sex for money, so you can't enforce a contract for sex for money.

it is illegal to sell drugs, so you can't take a drug dealer to court for selling bad drugs

it is illegal to do rakeback on party poker so you can't take an affiliate to court for not doing it.

does that help? i am not saying he is a good guy, and i am not justifying what he did. it is just reality.

[/ QUOTE ] its not illegal to get rakeback at party though. party does not make laws... its illegal to buy herione, because the government says so, not a public company.

anyway, you are right there are a lot of problems potentially with trying to get a contract like this enforced but you are mistaken on your specific example.

[/ QUOTE ]

EXACTLY.

AAAA unless you are a lawyer or have a lawyer advising you then you really should not discuss how you think the law is.

RB may be against PP policy, that does not make it illegal.

Which site is AAAA an affiliate for? He should be considered blackmarked for his incompetence and false propoganda.

[siegfriedandroy]

agreed- it would probably not be too tough a case at all, to get an individual judgment (especially if he didnt show up)- not sure how a class suit would work) that would allow you to garnish his wages in the future.

[siccjay]

AAAA is one of Tim's accounts.