Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread

[moayer]

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Plus ESPN is slobbing all over Bonds' knob in a disgusting way. They didn't even mention the chorus of boos that greeted Bonds' every plate appearance in LA.


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he's been boo'd in LA since 1993

[RedBean]

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1. It is undisputed that Bonds used steroids. He admitted it under oath to a grand jury.


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This is unequivocally false. He testified to taking a substance he believed to be flaxseed oil. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just because you don't believe him, and you project your assumptions upon what you believe the substance to be, that does NOT make it suddenly true that he admitted to something he didn't.

Remember, this is why they are currently pursuing a frivolous perjury investigation...because he DID NOT admit to taking steroids, and they believe he lied by failing to admit it.

And let's not forget the actual transcripts are still sealed, so no one is entirely sure what they contain in whole, and the only source we have as to what they contain so far is the leak from the federal prosecutor. The same federal prosecutor who is doing a 2.5 year stint in prison for breaking the law in his overzealous pursuit of Bonds.

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2. Using steroids was banned from baseball in 1991, so Bonds was cheating when he used steroids. The fact that baseball did not test or otherwise enforce the ban does not change any of that.


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It also doesn't change due process, or the burden of proof.

The MLB CBA clearly states a player can only be found to be in violation of the drug policy if he fails a test administered by a MLB designee.

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So I don't think Bonds should ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame. And yes, before you ask, it is fine with me if no one from the "steroid era" gets inducted into the HoF. The Hall of Fame is the highest honor in baseball and cheaters don't deserve it, even if everyone else was cheating at the same time.

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The Hall of Fame is an honor bestowed by the baseball writers association, based on their on subjective biases.

Barry Bonds doesn't need their validation, nor does he pander to get it. He knows he's the best player ever, and a bunch of middle-income crusty old hacks checking a ballot box the other way out of spite 5 years after he retires can't change what happened on the field, despite their disdain for how he didn't play their game inside the game for the past 20 years.

[critikal]

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Redbean,

HGH is extremely affordable. There's a Chinese firm that provides it for $15,000/year or so.

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I took synthetic growth hormone because of a deficiency when I was younger and it was pretty expensive. I'm pretty sure that it was >$10k per shipment (UPS didn't cool it correctly once, I'm sure they had a lot of fun with the insurance company) with them coming every couple of months or so. Real HGH comes from cadavers (dead people), and is more expensive. I had a prescription though, so the co-pay something stupid like $20. Still that's not too much money for a pro baseball player, especially if he's evading taxes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

After looking at players' numbers from the 1990s, I'm sure that most would agree that if Bond wasn't the BEST player of the decade, then he'd certainly be in the top 2 or 3. Looking at his numbers then, I think you'd be hard to find anyone arguing that Bonds' achievements were due to steroid use. Yet during this period there was no steroid testing in baseball, and former player's account that steroid use was out of control. But Bonds was still the best. When he "leveled the playing field" so to speak, he simply went from being the best- to being a "god".

That's assuming he took steroids.

[kyleb]

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1. It is undisputed that Bonds used steroids. He admitted it under oath to a grand jury.

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wrong

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2. But that doesn't change the fact that Bonds is a lying cheater.

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wrong

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3. Steroids do not help a non-baseball player suddenly become a good hitter, but there is no question that steroids make an already good hitter even better, by improving strength, bat speed, recovery time, etc.

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amphetamines >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>> steroids when it comes to PEDs

hmm, who used amphetamines again?

[bluef0x]

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Plus ESPN is slobbing all over Bonds' knob in a disgusting way. They didn't even mention the chorus of boos that greeted Bonds' every plate appearance in LA.

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Why the [censored] would they need to mention booing in LA?

[zer0]

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amphetamines >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>> steroids when it comes to PEDs

hmm, who used amphetamines again?

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is it actually proven that aaron used amphetamines? i hope you're not dismissing mountains of evidence vs. bonds but quick to accept some passing mention of aaron and amphetamines

[BigSoonerFan]

Please, Barry, hit another home run as soon as possible, then the media blitz will be over and we can go back to ignoring you. You're an insufferable prick and most people just want you to go away.

[vhawk01]

By the way there is a hilarious Bonds thread in BBV4life that some of you might get a kick out of. One poster is trying to explain how 40 years ago some pitcher would have had the moxy to put his own career on the line and throw a 100 mph fastball at Bonds knee, guaranteed to shatter it and end Bonds chase for good. Since he is a known 'roider. And everyone in baseball hates 'roiders. But now baseball players are just big pansies so they won't do it.

[DrewDevil]

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1. It is undisputed that Bonds used steroids. He admitted it under oath to a grand jury.


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This is unequivocally false. He testified to taking a substance he believed to be flaxseed oil. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Yes, but that substance was, in fact, steroids. Ergo, Bonds took steroids, even if you believe his hilarious lie about thinking it was flaxseed oil.

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Just because you don't believe him, and you project your assumptions upon what you believe the substance to be, that does NOT make it suddenly true that he admitted to something he didn't.

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Even if you believe he accidentally used steroids, he still used steroids.

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Remember, this is why they are currently pursuing a frivolous perjury investigation...because he DID NOT admit to taking steroids, and they believe he lied by failing to admit it.

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He flatly denied a ton of other specific questions regarding specific steroids, contradicting the testimony of a number of witnesses to Bonds' words and actions. That is why he is under perjury investigation.

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And let's not forget the actual transcripts are still sealed, so no one is entirely sure what they contain in whole, and the only source we have as to what they contain so far is the leak from the federal prosecutor. The same federal prosecutor who is doing a 2.5 year stint in prison for breaking the law in his overzealous pursuit of Bonds.

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Um, is this really the side you want to be on? Bonds has admitted to reporters that he lies to them. He's lied on his taxes, lied to his wife... he's what lawyers might call a "less than credible witness."

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2. Using steroids was banned from baseball in 1991, so Bonds was cheating when he used steroids. The fact that baseball did not test or otherwise enforce the ban does not change any of that.


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It also doesn't change due process, or the burden of proof.

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Another awful argument, forcing baseball to have the same standards as a court of law. MLB is not required to give Bonds due process or prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, because a "guilty" finding doesn't send him to prison. I'm not saying Bonds should be locked up, just denied the Hall of Fame.

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The MLB CBA clearly states a player can only be found to be in violation of the drug policy if he fails a test administered by a MLB designee.

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And again, I'm talking about the Hall, not kicking Bonds out of baseball.

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So I don't think Bonds should ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame. And yes, before you ask, it is fine with me if no one from the "steroid era" gets inducted into the HoF. The Hall of Fame is the highest honor in baseball and cheaters don't deserve it, even if everyone else was cheating at the same time.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Hall of Fame is an honor bestowed by the baseball writers association, based on their on subjective biases.

Barry Bonds doesn't need their validation, nor does he pander to get it. He knows he's the best player ever, and a bunch of middle-income crusty old hacks checking a ballot box the other way out of spite 5 years after he retires can't change what happened on the field, despite their disdain for how he didn't play their game inside the game for the past 20 years.

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MMmmkay... I suspect that Bonds cares a little more about the Hall of Fame than you suggest here.

[RedBean]

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Ergo, Bonds took steroids, even if you believe his hilarious lie about thinking it was flaxseed oil.


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You believing he lied is a far cry from your assertion that he admitted steroid use and it being an "undeniable fact".

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He's lied on his taxes, lied to his wife... he's what lawyers might call a "less than credible witness."


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You seem to have a hard time telling the difference between "allegation" and "fact".

FWIW...the tax evasion case was abandoned some time ago due to lack of evidence when they discovered the key witness may have lied in an attempt to extort Bonds.

And these lawyers calling him "less than credible"... are these the same lawyers who are spending time in federal prison for violating federal law in leaking grand jury testimony? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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MLB is not required to give Bonds due process or prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, because a "guilty" finding doesn't send him to prison.


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You probably should read the CBA. Per the agreement, players are most certainly afforded due process, and to be considered in violation they must not only be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but beyond a shadow of a doubt, courtesy of a failed test via MLB designee, a re-test within 48 hours, and third party confirmation of test results. Then they are afforded an appeal before any punishment begins.

The burden of proof is much higher than simply "beyond a reasonable doubt".

And it's definately more than "I read it in SI so it must be true..."