hero vomits and...? ($150 Stars) - Page 3

bestcellar · #21 04-06-2006, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This isn't close and no vomitting is necessary.

A stop and go sucks because you really want to be all in against AK is good here preflop, and you will never fold out a better hand on the flop and you will occasionally fold a worse hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point, but I guess my thinking is that I'd rather have

a) first in vigorish/FE
b) know I'm not up against a monster one way or another (best case he flips TT, second best I'm shouting HOLD in a flip)

I go back to my point about gaining the button with 10xbb left and another ten hands or so to choose from. I realize, yes, I need chips, but if we accept the range I put villain on, isn't this a bad spot for jacks?

Ansky · #22 04-06-2006, 01:21 AM

No its not... for all the afformentioned reasons. Passing up a clear edge this early is suicide.

Sure you'd rather be in a better spot, but that's irellevent because you aren't.

donny5k · #23 04-06-2006, 01:21 AM

I don't think "we" accept your range.

NoahSD · #24 04-06-2006, 01:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, I'm playing devil's advocate here, because I did push after vomiting....

I'm not going to find a better situation than 47% getting the button, first-in-vigorish with late position coming up, and still with 10x the big blind and no antes? I understand what you mean equity-wise, but if we all agree his range IS AA-TT and AQ+, I think part of me would rather push K2o from the CO after it's folded to me than push here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do we have to choose between +EV situations? Take all of them.

bestcellar · #25 04-06-2006, 01:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think "we" accept your range.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is it you're having a hard time accepting? If you think that 7-8 orbits is not enough time to get a read on a player, then no read is ever relevant to any MTT situation, period. Either that or you somehow think my read is just incorrect.

This guy was not involved in ANY pots whatsoever the entire time I was at the table, except two, and both he won on the flop without showdown.

TT-AA, AQ-AK is MY range for raising UTG+1 after a UTG limp, and this guy was playing tighter than I do. Yes, 70 hands blah blah blah, but at some point you have to trust that you have at least an adequate guess of a player's range.

Ansky · #26 04-06-2006, 01:25 AM

There are times to pass up edges.

This is by no means one of those times.

bestcellar · #27 04-06-2006, 01:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No its not... for all the afformentioned reasons. Passing up a clear edge this early is suicide.

Sure you'd rather be in a better spot, but that's irellevent because you aren't.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused as to why this is a clear edge. Are you talking about JJ being 47% vs. the range I'm putting him on justifying my pot odds to push?

I'm not trying to be an idiot, I'm honestly confused. I had a really bad feeling about this hand pretty much from the moment he acted. I knew he had a premium hand, and I knew I didn't want to see him flip up most of the hands I knew he was going to probably flip up.

donny5k · #28 04-06-2006, 01:29 AM

My point is that there is a margin of error, and it all lies on the side of him being looser than that. The other point of not passing up this however small edge is equally valid, though.

donny5k · #29 04-06-2006, 01:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm confused as to why this is a clear edge. Are you talking about JJ being 47% vs. the range I'm putting him on justifying my pot odds to push?

I'm not trying to be an idiot, I'm honestly confused. I had a really bad feeling about this hand pretty much from the moment he acted. I knew he had a premium hand, and I knew I didn't want to see him flip up most of the hands I knew he was going to probably flip up.

[/ QUOTE ]

.47 *22.5 = 10.575 > 10

bestcellar · #30 04-06-2006, 01:32 AM

Tough spot though, really.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 (t7483)
MP1 (t4775)
MP2 (t4453)
MP3 (t5802)
CO (t1745)
Button (t5020)
Hero (t2145)
BB (t7520)
UTG (t4579)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t200, UTG+1 raises to t775, 5 folds, Hero raises to t2145, 1 fold, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t1370.

Flop: (t4690) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t4690) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t4690) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t4690

Results in white below: 
Hero has Js Jc (one pair, jacks).
UTG+1 has Ks Kc (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t4690.