The lack of class.

[satya]

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people have been going on about this sort of [censored] since time began.

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Yeah, since the begining of time. Like for you that would be around 1990 or so eh?

j/k


sorta

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


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learn to live with it, or u may be pigeon holed as a boring old git.

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Better that than a spoiled immature brat who can get off no other way than by insulting people from behind a computer monitor.

[Fish R Friends]

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Maybe i'm just an old timer, but have you guys noticed a considerable lack of class in the the poker world (online/bm). Nowadays i can't even go to a room w/o people trash talking each other and berating the other person.

Take for example these forums, there tends to be a certain lack of class everywhere. People making smart aleck remarks and using profanity constantly.

I notice this in the workplace, school and everywhere. there just doesn't seem to be any class anymore and a lot of people tend to have oversized egos.

......

actually no. Again, the question is not whether one should live with it or not. the question is whether it is getting worse or not.

I judge by your repsonse its always been like this.

I disagree. The rudeness that happens seems to arise from two reasons. First, it is because of lack of social repercussion. Whether online or the real world, you would not act in certain ways if you were in a smaller community because of social repercussions (following the norms). Also, due to anonymity and the way our culture is constructed, people tend to say more extreme things to get their point across or to get attention.

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BRAVO! Thank you Phanekim. Things are getting worse and it drives me nuts. Don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect but it makes me rejoice (I'm not a git!) that others notice it also; you nailed this one right on the head.

I would love to see a time where people were civil, used manners, and perhaps had a general awareness of others.

[Fish R Friends]

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Popularity of poker among younger people-->greater volume of immature people in player pool-->more immaturity at the table.

Not rocket science here, guys.

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This seems to be a contributing factor, but it seems to be oversimplified. I've seen people of all ages, ethnicities, beliefs, etc. slide..

[thekiller]

Dont trouble yourselves with these dead beats. Most people are big heads in some form. Next time is happens: get a pair of Y fronts and put them on your head.

[AlanBostick]

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THere are common generally accepted norms that are considered classy and unclassy.

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They are "generally accepted" by only small slices of particular societies. They are by no means universal.

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For example, profanity and insults are considered by general consensus to be unclassy.

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There is no broad consensus as to what constitutes "profanity" or "insult". For example, in some social contexts, my disagreeing with you publicly constitutes an insult. In many others, your stance of insisting that the etiquette of your community is universal would be seen as particularly obnoxious and patronizing insult.

Do not confuse your own narrow, parochial upbringing with the way things ought to be in all the world. The world is a very big place, and poker players come from all social strata all around it, from the slums of Johannesberg to the townhouses of Singaporan merchant princes.

Here in the US, B&M poker rooms are one of the most socially and ethnically diverse environments I know. The only consensus about manners and class boil down to the rules and standards of the poker room itself -- and there is considerable resistance to some of those. (For example, in my opinion only a racist jerk would insist on the enforcement of the English Only rule. I've played in clubs where it would make more sense to enforce a Vietnamese- or Tagalog-only rule, and for me to learn the appropriate words for "check", "bet", "raise", and "fold", than to enforce the English-Only rule actually in place.)

If you can't handle the diversity of poker, maybe you should stick to a more ethnically and socially uniform game like golf or tennis.

[sternroolz]

Eh, people have been acting without class for quite a while. I first played poker at Bicycle Club a few months after turning 21 in 1993. When I played there, and at Commerce, I typically was the youngest person in the house. It was not at all like it is now...there were very few young people playing.

So I got to play with all the old low limit nits. They were pretty damm good about complaining and hurling racial slurs, particularly at the female asian dealers.

I guess some of the WPT type crap...the celebrating and stuff...didn't exist back them, but people were still plenty rude and discourteous.

One of my least treasured moments was winning the first casino tournament I ever entered. I entered a $10 w/rebuys stud hi/lo tournament at Bike on a Friday at noon. For those of you that don't know, these were a pretty big deal back then with even the occasional pro playing...kinda the only game in town type thing...and they used to attract 80-120 players. Anyway, I got down to heads up and people were talking about making a deal....I had no clue what it was. People were talking trash about me too. I win the tournament and over $800. A big deal to me as my bi weekly paycheck was barely more than that and I had never played higher than $3-6. On the way to cash out, I get hit up for money by people I never met, including one guy that is just hounding me for a lucky chip. I told him to f-off. Still pisses me off that these jerks would not leave me alone and let me enjoy something like this.

[McMelchior]

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THere are common generally accepted norms that are considered classy and unclassy.

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They are "generally accepted" by only small slices of particular societies. They are by no means universal.

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Finally a grown up view here on twoplustwo.

Social etnocentricity, it's called.

The wanna-be-upper-middle class with increasing desperation trying to impose their (wished for) cultural standards on everybody else.

Like the rule against saying f*** during the WSOP. A tournament instigated by a man (a convicted killer BTW) who would never take such a word in his mouth.

LMF***ingAO.

McMelchior (Johan)

[Exsubmariner]

I read once about a list of symptoms associated with a sick society. Rudeness was the one where you knew things were really bad.

[sandycove]

This boring old git finds the low level of online gaming chat shocking and unsporting and much too much of the tone in forums unkind, unamusing, arrogant and sophomoric. I have no clue whether this is due to a general decline of Western Civilization or simply down to the anonymity of the internet and the relative immaturity of its community.

One takes the wheat from the chaff. I hate to turn off chat because I might miss a read. And sifting for gold on 2+2 is no different that any other chore.

There is a cultural component. The Irish, for instance, regardless of class, wouldn’t dream of spewing antisocial invective at each other over an internet game. And when they’re playing among each other on a national site, like Paddy Power, they will always comment on how much more pleasant it is to have a game in the absence of Americans. (Of course, it’s a small country, and perfect anonymity is impossible to achieve.)

[vhawk01]

Ummm....the status quo is conservative. Young blood is revolutionary. Its pretty standard. Those who are in a position to actually observe change over time are those most inclined to disparage said change.