Best book for learning 7stud? - Page 3

Mason Malmuth · #21 03-28-2006, 04:57 PM

Hi disjunction:

What I've written is that excellent stud players have a higher standard deviation than excellent hold 'em players, while bad stud players have a smaller standard deviation than bad hold 'em players.

Best wishes,
Mason

disjunction · #22 03-28-2006, 05:28 PM

Jeffage, Mason

Thanks for the comments and clarifications.

Andy B · #23 03-31-2006, 12:33 AM

The original poster implied that he was an experienced player who has studied some. For a player like him, I see no reason not to jump right into 7CS4AP. As for a less experienced player, they might benefit from a less "advanced" text, but the other books that are out there stink for the most part. West's book has gaping holes in it. Othmer's book is unreadable. I've only read about half of the Adams book and wasn't impressed by it. Kammen's book is terrible. The only books that are out there that I think have any decent stud content, and I have most of them, are the original Super/System and Mason's Essays books.

I honestly think that anyone who is interested in learning stud is best served by reading 7CS4AP and TOP and trying to apply the concepts that are relevant to his game. Use some common sense. If there is no ante, don't bother stealing. If people aren't folding, don't try to knock them out. The section on loose games is applicable to lots and lots of games, including almost any that a beginner is likely to sit in.

BlueSmurf · #24 03-31-2006, 05:50 AM

Hey Andy

I agree with you on Kammen and West. I think Adams' book is quite good and a great intro along with Reese's chapter in SS1. TOP is mandatory of course, and a re-read of this along with 7CSFAP after 10.000 hands at low limits should push anybody in the right direction.

I've tried some 7CSFAP concepts out at the $1/$2 limits and the success is minimal. For instance, raising 3rd with a 3-flush and two overcards to the board isn't winning the overcard outs for me, because nobody with anything folds. You must understand that at these limits, people chase OESDs against open trips, they don't care about paired door cards, and they chase with completely dead cards. This is great, because you can win at alarming rates. Undoubtedly, 7CSFAP is the book. I've read it several times and it is amazing for thinking about the game, but it doesn't give you the ABC approach that beginners need and that takes the money at the low limits. Stud is played much worse than HE below $3/$6.

I'm not the greatest HE player ever, but I'm running at 3.5BB/100 at $1/$2. For stud at the same limit, it's more than three times that.

Since you're an accomplished stud player yourself, I think you underestimate the practical advise that new players need. Adams will give them that. 7CSFAP is what catapults them into true stud players.

Cheers,

Smurf

jar · #25 03-31-2006, 12:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
(I refer only to Atlantic City for this)

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you spent any significant time in the Foxwoods 75 stud? How does it compare? (I'm a long way from this limit, but if the Foxwoods 75 game is this good, it's something to aspire to.)

Jeffage · #26 03-31-2006, 01:33 PM

I've never played 75 stud at Foxwoods, but I plan on visiting there soon. The few times I've been to Foxwoods were a couple years ago and I mostly played mid limit hold em. I've heard the 75 games are as good as AC, but I haven't seen it yet...I'd be surprised if they weren't soft.

BTW, I've seen similar bad play at 150-300 stud in AC, but I just don't quite have the ability to withstand swings like that yet. Limits are a good thing. But generally, high limit stud in the east seems to attract rich businessmen and few very skilled players that you need to concern yourself with. I've heard 100-200 stud at Commerce is much tougher. I played 50-100 stud at Bellagio and it was soft, but definitely tougher than 75 stud in AC.

Jeff

Andy B · #27 04-01-2006, 02:33 AM

If you have a live three-flush with two over-cards to the board, it is well worth raising with on third street even if (maybe especially if) no one is folding.

BlueSmurf · #28 04-01-2006, 02:52 AM

Yeah, I still like the play, but if you know that it will not deter anybody, so you don't get the fold equity, I'm afraid I'm merely sweetening the pot odds for the oddball draws. I think there are a couple of plays in 7CSFAP that needs people folding or suddenly you're violating the ideas in the chapter "An important concept borrowed from Razz".

gusmahler · #29 05-18-2006, 09:03 PM

I put the Adams book in my Amazon wish list a while ago and forgot about it. Today, I look at my list and find the Adams book available from the Marketplace section for 20 cents. Naturally, I placed an order. Yeah, it got a bad review from Mason, but I've never read a single book or article about 7stud, so I figured it's worth $3.69 (shipping is $3.49).

BigStack650 · #30 05-19-2006, 12:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What helped me most with stud is Chip Reese's chapter in Super System.

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I agree...I find Super System to be a good way to get the basics down of any game and being aggressive (as long as you know the rules of how to play the game that you are trying to learn). SS II does a good job of explaining the games and rules which may be more of a help