Did I overcount my outs?

[tehox]

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This is funnier than this.

If this is real you are my freakin Hero!!!!!!!!!1

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I always thought the sup bro thread was pretty lame.

[bozlax]

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To be honest, this was in the middle of a bad night, and my guess of my op flopping the flush was in part due to the pessimism about some of the online poker hands. It gets exasperating flopping top pair with your AK and spewing until you realize your op flopped an AA333 full house.

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So much for your defense of your hand-reading skills. If your opponent flopped the AA333 boat then your AK must have flopped better than top-pair [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. And, putting a Villan on a specific hand because he 3-bets a flop, just because the flop is scary, is not hand-reading, it's MUBS. I've seen Vills 3-bet this same flop with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]...hell, I might do that myself, depending on what I thought of you.

And, grapabo, this thread is as results-oriented as it gets. Your call-down was correct. Not capping the flop and raising the turn was incorrect.

Here's a thought problem for you: everything is the same in your hand; the action on the flop goes: check, check, check, check, Vill bets, you raise, 4 folds, Vill shows you 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 3-bets, what's your plan for the rest of the hand? (Hint: you have to act on at least the flop and the turn.)

[bravos1]

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Right. Three people calling a raise in front of me and I shouldn't guess that at least one of them did so with a king.

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Is this some kind of special table where they play any K? What about an Ace? If 2 people play a K you want to raise it even more!!! That means there are only 2 Kings left in the deck? Hmm special table = special deck? Is this a 10 King deck? Seriously, you need to 3-bet this PF, the odds are that a king will not flop and you have a huge equity edge. If you would of 3-bet PF, maybe MP3 folds his J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] after trying to limp in cheaply?

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As it turned out, the player did flop a flush, which I left out of the original post, but if you're going to dismiss my ability to read hands at the table, I feel compelled to bring it up.

[/ QUOTE ] Weaksauce! That is being results oriented. So you know that someone limping or cold calling after 2-4 other cold callers means they have an Ace or King? Not 22-99, or 9Ts-JQs???? or any 2 cards looking to flop a monster, or are just morons, or .... you get it I think

[grapabo]

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To be honest, this was in the middle of a bad night, and my guess of my op flopping the flush was in part due to the pessimism about some of the online poker hands. It gets exasperating flopping top pair with your AK and spewing until you realize your op flopped an AA333 full house.

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So much for your defense of your hand-reading skills. If your opponent flopped the AA333 boat then your AK must have flopped better than top-pair [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. And, putting a Villan on a specific hand because he 3-bets a flop, just because the flop is scary, is not hand-reading, it's MUBS. I've seen Vills 3-bet this same flop with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]...hell, I might do that myself, depending on what I thought of you.

And, grapabo, this thread is as results-oriented as it gets. Your call-down was correct. Not capping the flop and raising the turn was incorrect.

Here's a thought problem for you: everything is the same in your hand; the action on the flop goes: check, check, check, check, Vill bets, you raise, 4 folds, Vill shows you 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 3-bets, what's your plan for the rest of the hand? (Hint: you have to act on at least the flop and the turn.)

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Fair enough about the passivity; I could have worked harder to represent a higher flush. I realize that I may have some problems beyond this immediate hand, though. I played with a shorter-than-normal bankroll that doesn't allow room for the aggression you all suggested. If I fix that, I'll feel more comfortable.

[bravos1]

Also, since your post title referred to outs...
What if SB called your raise on the flop? How would this change your thinking of the hand? What would your play be? Would you be more likely to cap, fold, or call?

This is actually a place where you can count on outs that haven't actually appeared yet.. I will explain my thinking once you reply.

[bodnotbod]

: newbie grunch - I may be off-beam :

I think the conventional wisdom is that this pot is too large not to call the river.

It is by no means certain he has the flush, it is only certain that none of the folders had it ;o)

If I remember correctly the salient quote is "nobody made much money making difficult folds on the river". You've got trips, you could easily have the other guy beat: bearing in mind your read of the table the likelihood of this increases.

[bozlax]

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Fair enough about the passivity; I could have worked harder to represent a higher flush. I realize that I may have some problems beyond this immediate hand, though. I played with a shorter-than-normal bankroll that doesn't allow room for the aggression you all suggested. If I fix that, I'll feel more comfortable.

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I wasn't talking about passivity. COUNT YOUR OUTS ON THE FLOP AND TURN if you KNOW 100% that Vill HAS THE FLUSH. Then tell me what you would do on the flop and turn.

[bodnotbod]

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To be honest, this was in the middle of a bad night, and my guess of my op flopping the flush was in part due to the pessimism about some of the online poker hands. It gets exasperating flopping top pair with your AK and spewing until you realize your op flopped an AA333 full house.

[/ QUOTE ]

So much for your defense of your hand-reading skills. If your opponent flopped the AA333 boat then your AK must have flopped better than top-pair [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. And, putting a Villan on a specific hand because he 3-bets a flop, just because the flop is scary, is not hand-reading, it's MUBS. I've seen Vills 3-bet this same flop with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]...hell, I might do that myself, depending on what I thought of you.

And, grapabo, this thread is as results-oriented as it gets. Your call-down was correct. Not capping the flop and raising the turn was incorrect.

Here's a thought problem for you: everything is the same in your hand; the action on the flop goes: check, check, check, check, Vill bets, you raise, 4 folds, Vill shows you 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 3-bets, what's your plan for the rest of the hand? (Hint: you have to act on at least the flop and the turn.)

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Fair enough about the passivity; I could have worked harder to represent a higher flush. I realize that I may have some problems beyond this immediate hand, though. I played with a shorter-than-normal bankroll that doesn't allow room for the aggression you all suggested. If I fix that, I'll feel more comfortable.

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This is going from bad to worse, even in my unworthy newbie eyes.

You played with a bankroll that crippled your ability to play one hand without fear? I now have the image of my lovely Pacific people who sit down with $1 to play 5c/10c ring games, get dealt TT first hand and then blissfully toss it all in and then disappear.

I hardly dare to ask, but go on: what was your bankroll and what was the big bet?

[grapabo]

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Fair enough about the passivity; I could have worked harder to represent a higher flush. I realize that I may have some problems beyond this immediate hand, though. I played with a shorter-than-normal bankroll that doesn't allow room for the aggression you all suggested. If I fix that, I'll feel more comfortable.

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I wasn't talking about passivity. COUNT YOUR OUTS ON THE FLOP AND TURN if you KNOW 100% that Vill HAS THE FLUSH. Then tell me what you would do on the flop and turn.

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Counting full outs, it's the case queen + 6 cards on the flop -- >6-1, pot giving 10-1 to call. If the flop is missed, it will be case queen + 9 cards -- 4.5-1, pot giving 11-2 to call.

If I jam it instead of call, it turns into 13-4 to play the flop and 17-8 to play the turn, plus the chance the villain might fold.

[grapabo]

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This is going from bad to worse, even in my unworthy newbie eyes.

You played with a bankroll that crippled your ability to play one hand without fear? I now have the image of my lovely Pacific people who sit down with $1 to play 5c/10c ring games, get dealt TT first hand and then blissfully toss it all in and then disappear.

I hardly dare to ask, but go on: what was your bankroll and what was the big bet?

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Not quite that small. I had available between 50 and 100 big bets in a limit game (I know the optimum bankroll is larger than that), but I had been getting clobbered in big hands already this night and, well, as you can see, got a little gun-shy.